[Politics] Brexit

[Buzzer]

I'd suggest you go back through the thread. However, your argument about ad-homien has been negated by your own...

I'll ask again, how do I give a factual reply to a question that asks did he vote because he hates his grandchildren or because they're all racist? That there is the ad-hominem.

 

[Eeyore]

I don't have a problem with the result of the vote - that's democracy for you (although I wonder how leavers can claim that having a second vote on the Brexit deal is somehow undemocratic. Surely if you believe in democracy in one instance, you should believe in it again.)

What I do disagree with is the government's decision to allow a major constitutional change to be decided on a simple majority of those voting, rather than a majority of those eligible, or a two-thirds majority, as almost every other body in the world would insist on. But as has been said, the Remain side were complacent and also ignorant of opinion beyond their own bubbles.

This was my view- and not because I wanted a certain result.

The decision to leave could not be reversed. I would have settled for 60/40 to show that it was the will of the majority that wasn't subject to change at regular intervals depending on single issue representation in the media headlines.

Ce la vie.

 

[BN9 BHA]

About as difficult as it was back in the olden days.

When it was free, paid by the credit card.

Ok different question, in the olden days you mentioned, how many people went to university compaired to now?

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm a thickie?

I have an undergraduate degree in international relations and a masters in investment banking. I have worked since 16 years old, I have worked in accountancy, both in an urban and rural setting. I have worked in debt recovery for a large water company and now work for one of Britain's largest exporters and in its risk department.

I guess I'm a thickie because I'm more concerned about economic welfare than civil pride.

Obviously you're not stupid. I could never understand why people seemed to think economic arguments trump everything else though. Christ it's important, yes, but then so are lots of other factors when it comes to voting. And if people deem those to be equally important, it doesn't mean they should be derided. Economic arguments are usually championed by those doing alright but what about those that aren't? That's when other factors become more significant in peoples lives. Such as civic pride?

One thing that I can't believe is still not even registering on people's radar is the environment. Sure, 20-30 years ago when the green party was in its infancy. But today, when every week the evidence and need to take drastic action just grows and grows. The green party has 1 MP (ONE!) and hasn't looked like winning another despite general elections coming along every other week. Because the average person couldn't give a shit. In most people's vote determining factors, I'd warrant it's not even top 5 consideration. Health, Education, Economy, Immigration and the X factor result are all more important. And yet we are ALL f***ed if we don't keep Mother Nature 'on side' as opposed to e.g. the Unionists! It's really quite strange why people aren't thinking about this. Probably it's too big an issue to consider and people just don't want to contemplate. But forget about Brexit for a minute, what's really going to screw your children's future up is crop failures, rising sea levels and suddenly several billion people on the move to find refuge elsewhere. It'll end in tears and I'm not just talking about the polar bears

 

[GreersElbow]

I'll ask again, how do I give a factual reply to a question that asks did he vote because he hates his grandchildren or because they're all racist? That there is the ad-hominem.

You've also not gone through the thread, have you? I'm referring to a comment I made in reply to your...talking about trade, duped voters etc...

"The unwashed masses" Granted - I'm not trying to excuse OP's comments, it's unnecessary and is unhelpful. However, the fact of the matter is quite simple. Brexit's been ugly, both sides as bad as one another.

 

[Ludensian Gull]

And my point again. You're not exactly presenting yourself well...again.

Reading your previous posts I always imagined you as a self a opionuated , I wasn't wrong

 

[portlock seagull]

Remind me how hard it is to get into university these days?

 

[Tooting Gull]

Au contraire. I have no more a monopoly on truth as you do on determining who does or doesn't get to vote on what happens to this country.

We both know what the purpose of starting this thread was all about though, don't we? You started a new thread when there's a thousand page one already full of Brexit news. Your thread title gives your game away clearly, it was a cheap shot at people who you consider thick. And you can all pat yourselves on the back at the jolly jape but my point still stands. Who are you to call people like that old boy thick?

Give it a rest. Of course it's controversial, but it's a new survey and worthy of comment/debate and the thread title paraphrased the content. No one on here is going to stop talking about important stuff because you don't like it and fly into an abusive rage. Got it?

 

[portlock seagull]

Why 2003?

Just picking a nominal year, a while ago before the general surge in immigration levels.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I'm glad someone got it

Media studies anyone?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

About as difficult as it was back in the olden days.

When it was free, paid by the credit card.

That's rubbish. 50% now go to university, compared to 5% in the 70s.

Problem was all the Crayons universities, the old polytechnics, abandoning vocational courses and offering courses and degrees that are worthless.

 

[GreersElbow]

Ok different question, in the olden days you mentioned, how many people went to university compaired to now?

Probably more, education got better.

There was also less universities. There was also industry, that industry was then sold off and traditional jobs became less and less relevant as that industry died. Our economy was changed in 1979, when Thatcher was elected. Right or wrong, I'm not disputing that - I believe it was the right thing but that's digressing.

However, apprenticeships have only really become more prevalent now - so what choice did the youth have? The Labour government tried transitioning from that traditional industrial economy into a service-based economy. That's how economies evolve. It's a natural progression based on globalisation.

So, the real reason more people go to university is because the traditional economy no longer exists in the same way. You only have to go to ex-mining communities to see that effect. I work for British Steel, so having work in Scunthorpe, I see how it has effected the town. University is for some, the only option.

 

[Buzzer]

You've also not gone through the thread, have you? I'm referring to a comment I made in reply to your...talking about trade, duped voters etc...

"The unwashed masses" Granted - I'm not trying to excuse OP's comments, it's unnecessary and is unhelpful. However, the fact of the matter is quite simple. Brexit's been ugly, both sides as bad as one another.

I have gone through the thread and the ad-hominem is calling Brexit voters thick and racist.My response that not learning from history is a kind of stupidity was the one you picked up on and told me that I should give factual replies. I made no comment about being duped or about trade or even 'etc.'

 

[GreersElbow]

That's rubbish. 50% now go to university, compared to 5% in the 70s.

Problem was all the Crayons universities, the old polytechnics, abandoning vocational courses and offering courses and degrees that are worthless.

And who's faults that? Typical baby-boomers, won't accept responsibility.

It was your lot who voted for the government policies that lead to that "50%" you quote going to university.

 

[GreersElbow]

Reading your previous posts I always imagined you as a self a opionuated , I wasn't wrong

It isn't hard when you've got the intelligence of a tadpole.. opinunated? Are you shaking so much because of the adrenaline rush you're getting because you're in an argument?

 

[Buzzer]

Give it a rest. Of course it's controversial, but it's a new survey and worthy of comment/debate and the thread title paraphrased the content. No one on here is going to stop talking about important stuff because you don't like it and fly into an abusive rage. Got it?

Haha! Playing the innocent now. I was never trying to call Brexit voters thick. Not me sir. It was the bigger kids who said it.

 

[GreersElbow]

I have gone through the thread and the ad-hominem is calling Brexit voters thick and racist.My response that not learning from history is a kind of stupidity was the one you picked up on and told me that I should give factual replies. I made no comment about being duped or about trade or even 'etc.'

No, I never said you made a commebt about being duped, or trade, either.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Probably more, education got better.

There was also less universities. There was also industry, that industry was then sold off and traditional jobs became less and less relevant as that industry died. Our economy was changed in 1979, when Thatcher was elected. Right or wrong, I'm not disputing that - I believe it was the right thing but that's digressing.

However, apprenticeships have only really become more prevalent now - so what choice did the youth have? The Labour government tried transitioning from that traditional industrial economy into a service-based economy. That's how economies evolve. It's a natural progression based on globalisation.

So, the real reason more people go to university is because the traditional economy no longer exists in the same way. You only have to go to ex-mining communities to see that effect. I work for British Steel, so having work in Scunthorpe, I see how it has effected the town. University is for some, the only option.

So would I be wrong in saying it isn't that difficult to get into university these days?

 

[GreersElbow]

The home truth that people were duped by the establishment?

Gove, Farage and Johnson....all career politicians....grossly lied about the benefits of leaving and then have had literally nothing worth of note to say about Brexit other than slating the EU.

The reality is simple. We're leaving the world's largest trading bloc with absolutely no ****ing clue what we're going to do afterwards. Desperately clinging onto a trade deal with the US because Trump said he'd give us one. That's great, but the US was already a large trading partner.

We're targeting the Argies, previously one of our largest trading partners and guess what's going to come up in negotiations. You named it, the sovereignty of the Falklands. Like Gibraltar, their sovereignty will be used as a pawn between the two nations. We won't have the backing of anyone in the negotiations.

We've got our 'sovereignty', but the damage will be greater than a bit of self 'pride'. I won't even mention the European Communities act.

[MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION]

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

It could be argued that the people lacking intelligence are the ones that don't understand the difference between debt and deficit.