[Politics] Brexit

[melias shoes]

give it a rest you doom merchant, you and your other sulking defeatist's make it out that this country will be on its knees for the long term ,get a grip you fool ,we're out !!!!
regards
DR

Stop telling them We're out. They can't take it.

 

[Baldseagull]

Jesus wept. Give it a rest. Read this Yesterday's Guardian. Read and weep.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....my-surge-life-leading-forecaster-jagjit-chadh

Is this an expert opinion?

 

[melias shoes]

Is this an expert opinion?

There's plenty of them on here hoping for failure.

 

[cunning fergus]

Your insistence that anyone who is pro-EU is a Tory-sympathiser is getting fking boring now, not least because it is total bollocks. It is not the EU at fault for failing to protect British workers, it is the fact that the electorate is constantly hoodwinked into electing useless Tory governments. Look at 2017 - their whole campaign revolved around "if you don't vote for us, you'll get that nasty Jeremy Corbyn". Their manifesto was the biggest load of nonsensical meaningless fluff I've ever seen published by a political party.

And in case you hadn't noticed, this country hasn't voted in a socialist government since the '70s - you're no friend of the trade unions if you think the solution is to pull up the drawbridge and let the British establishment carry on their merry way. It'll just be more of the same, only worse because the EU won't be there to protect us AT ALL.

Indeed, I wonder where we'd even be if it wasn't for the fact that Blair implemented the EU social charter - some 10 years later than everyone else, owing to the fact that the Tories couldn't bear to implement a laughably small minimum wage of about £4.50 an hour.

As you well know from the many exchanges we have had on the EU for years on this thread I take the old Labour Party view on how the EU works.

That means you and all the other pro EU mob can be legitimately labelled shithouse Tory capitalist shills or similar. If that gets under your skin, then I'm pleased, it's meant to.

It is absolutely not disengenuous to call you lot shilling Tory shithouses either, because as you never seem to understand (or accept) it was old Labour Party and trade union values that were in direct opposition to the objectives of the EU when the EU was forming.

Whether this opposition is based on Benn's view of the illigitimate nature of the EU's democratic structure, the EU's opposition to nationalisation or the EU's prioritisation of free markets, all of these aspects and more are no friend to any orthodox Labour Party supporter.

I honestly never get bored of reminding you Thatcher boys these lessons, because they are undeniably true; it was the Tories that took us in under Heath and it was then the Tories that campaigned to remain in the EEC with Thatcher at the helm of the campaign in the 70s. It may be a boring repetitive refrain to you but it is the truth, only a cretin would argue that it's not true.

For some on here I appreciate they will be too young and therefore politically naive to have a grasp of the history of left wing opposition to the EU......exposing their belief system is essential so that they understand what they are. There is nothing wrong with supporting the EU, many do, and as the post referendum posts on this thread prove the focus is always on maintains free markets, supporting global corporatism and it's supposed benefits for the UK. They may be new Labour views but they are not orthodox left wing views.

You though, as with others are old enough to know the lesson, you know it well and ignore it because you don't want to be reminded of what you are.......a shithouse Tory capitalist shill.

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't think that, but Uganda is a sovereign country too for all the good it does them dealing with the EU.

This answer indicates that poor sovereign countries like Uganda don't get a fair deal from the EU, which (if that is what you mean) is quite possibly the first post you have made on this thread that I agree with. They don't get a fair deal, in some fairness to the EU they will be fairer to Uganda than Russia or China, but they will not be fair.

African countries are hamstrung by EU trade deals, whether due to unfair trade tariffs, cheap dumping or even its aid programs. These all make those poor countries ability (like Uganda) to help itself much more difficult. For example even second hand clothing donations from charities have had a profound effect on local clothing business in African countries, many of these go bust in the face of literally free second hand clothes.

They need fair trade, not aid.........that will never happen all the while the EU remains aggressively protectionist with CAP at the centre of that protectionist stance.

One last point, the UK is not Uganda......not even remotely.

 

[melias shoes]

As you well know from the many exchanges we have had on the EU for years on this thread I take the old Labour Party view on how the EU works.

That means you and all the other pro EU mob can be legitimately labelled shithouse Tory capitalist shills or similar. If that gets under your skin, then I'm pleased, it's meant to.

It is absolutely not disengenuous to call you lot shilling Tory shithouses either, because as you never seem to understand (or accept) it was old Labour Party and trade union values that were in direct opposition to the objectives of the EU when the EU was forming.

Whether this opposition is based on Benn's view of the illigitimate nature of the EU's democratic structure, the EU's opposition to nationalisation or the EU's prioritisation of free markets, all of these aspects and more are no friend to any orthodox Labour Party supporter.

I honestly never get bored of reminding you Thatcher boys these lessons, because they are undeniably true; it was the Tories that took us in under Heath and it was then the Tories that campaigned to remain in the EEC with Thatcher at the helm of the campaign in the 70s. It may be a boring repetitive refrain to you but it is the truth, only a cretin would argue that it's not true.

For some on here I appreciate they will be too young and therefore politically naive to have a grasp of the history of left wing opposition to the EU......exposing their belief system is essential so that they understand what they are. There is nothing wrong with supporting the EU, many do, and as the post referendum posts on this thread prove the focus is always on maintains free markets, supporting global corporatism and it's supposed benefits for the UK. They may be new Labour views but they are not orthodox left wing views.

You though, as with others are old enough to know the lesson, you know it well and ignore it because you don't want to be reminded of what you are.......a shithouse Tory capitalist shill.

You seem to overlook the fact that a high percentage of leve voters were Labour voters. The referendum vote was a cross party result. Just saying.

 

[CheeseRolls]

As you well know from the many exchanges we have had on the EU for years on this thread I take the old Labour Party view on how the EU works.

That means you and all the other pro EU mob can be legitimately labelled shithouse Tory capitalist shills or similar. If that gets under your skin, then I'm pleased, it's meant to.

It is absolutely not disengenuous to call you lot shilling Tory shithouses either, because as you never seem to understand (or accept) it was old Labour Party and trade union values that were in direct opposition to the objectives of the EU when the EU was forming.

Whether this opposition is based on Benn's view of the illigitimate nature of the EU's democratic structure, the EU's opposition to nationalisation or the EU's prioritisation of free markets, all of these aspects and more are no friend to any orthodox Labour Party supporter.

I honestly never get bored of reminding you Thatcher boys these lessons, because they are undeniably true; it was the Tories that took us in under Heath and it was then the Tories that campaigned to remain in the EEC with Thatcher at the helm of the campaign in the 70s. It may be a boring repetitive refrain to you but it is the truth, only a cretin would argue that it's not true.

For some on here I appreciate they will be too young and therefore politically naive to have a grasp of the history of left wing opposition to the EU......exposing their belief system is essential so that they understand what they are. There is nothing wrong with supporting the EU, many do, and as the post referendum posts on this thread prove the focus is always on maintains free markets, supporting global corporatism and it's supposed benefits for the UK. They may be new Labour views but they are not orthodox left wing views.

You though, as with others are old enough to know the lesson, you know it well and ignore it because you don't want to be reminded of what you are.......a shithouse Tory capitalist shill.

I think you put together a cogent argument. The EU is big enough and ugly enough to have many flaws. What your argument lacks is any sense of conviction. I doubt anyone reading this gets the sense that the points you are making matter to you, other than the over arching quit the EU at any cost.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[cunning fergus]

You seem to overlook the fact that a high percentage of leve voters were Labour voters. The referendum vote was a cross party result. Just saying.

No I haven't, that there was a high leave rate among labour supporters is absolutely no surprise to me or the point I am making, particularly not taking in to consideration the distribution of age for leave voters.

Older "old" Labour Party supporters remember that in the 60s, 70s and 80s euro scepticism was in the Labour Party DNA. Trade unions were opposed, and as late as Kinnock's general election campaigns he wanted out........I can't think what changed his mind.

And then there was Blair.

 

[cunning fergus]

I think you put together a cogent argument. The EU is big enough and ugly enough to have many flaws. What your argument lacks is any sense of conviction. I doubt anyone reading this gets the sense that the points you are making matter to you, other than the over arching quit the EU at any cost.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

So let me get this right, I have demonstrated the case for why euro scepticism has deep roots on the political left, but you don't think I support the objectives of the political left because my post lacks "conviction".

I am not sure how I can deal with that, maybe for you I will Ned to add in the odd reference to "comrade" or "eat the rich"......would that make you happy?

 

[nicko31]

Stop telling them We're out. They can't take it.

If those Tory numpties hadn't called an election it would be a lot simplier for you Brexiteers.

The are fewer Brexiteers in parliament than 3 months ago and more than likely just aren't the numbers there for a hard Brexit, then you've got the house of lords. Get prepared for parliamentary deadlock and who knows what else.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...getting-stronger-political-deadlock-life-raft

 

[melias shoes]

No I haven't, that there was a high leave rate among labour supporters is absolutely no surprise to me or the point I am making, particularly not taking in to consideration the distribution of age for leave voters.

Older "old" Labour Party supporters remember that in the 60s, 70s and 80s euro scepticism was in the Labour Party DNA. Trade unions were opposed, and as late as Kinnock's general election campaigns he wanted out........I can't think what changed his mind.

And then there was Blair.

Kinnock saw the gravy train and jumped on. No shame that man. Sold out to the EU. Now very pro. Like you say what changed his mind I wonder.

 

[5ways]

This answer indicates that poor sovereign countries like Uganda don't get a fair deal from the EU, which (if that is what you mean) is quite possibly the first post you have made on this thread that I agree with. They don't get a fair deal, in some fairness to the EU they will be fairer to Uganda than Russia or China, but they will not be fair.

African countries are hamstrung by EU trade deals, whether due to unfair trade tariffs, cheap dumping or even its aid programs. These all make those poor countries ability (like Uganda) to help itself much more difficult. For example even second hand clothing donations from charities have had a profound effect on local clothing business in African countries, many of these go bust in the face of literally free second hand clothes.

They need fair trade, not aid.........that will never happen all the while the EU remains aggressively protectionist with CAP at the centre of that protectionist stance.

One last point, the UK is not Uganda......not even remotely.

Right. Big players will turn their economic power into political leverage. This is important to remember when we are trying to strike trade deals on our own.

 

[cunning fergus]

Right. Big players will turn their economic power into political leverage. This is important to remember when we are trying to strike trade deals on our own.

Couldn't agree more, if you have nothing to offer then you are going to take it up the small colon in a negotiation.

That's why a top 5 country with the developed economic, military, legal, political and cultural assets like the UK is placed well in any negotiation.

Happy days, another position we agree on.

 

[ManOfSussex]

This answer indicates that poor sovereign countries like Uganda don't get a fair deal from the EU, which (if that is what you mean) is quite possibly the first post you have made on this thread that I agree with. They don't get a fair deal, in some fairness to the EU they will be fairer to Uganda than Russia or China, but they will not be fair.

African countries are hamstrung by EU trade deals, whether due to unfair trade tariffs, cheap dumping or even its aid programs. These all make those poor countries ability (like Uganda) to help itself much more difficult. For example even second hand clothing donations from charities have had a profound effect on local clothing business in African countries, many of these go bust in the face of literally free second hand clothes.

They need fair trade, not aid.........that will never happen all the while the EU remains aggressively protectionist with CAP at the centre of that protectionist stance.

One last point, the UK is not Uganda......not even remotely.

Have you been to much of Africa or lived there out of interest?

 

[5ways]

Important piece: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...political-deadlock-life-raft?CMP=share_btn_tw

A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day | Vernon Bogdanor

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...Gove-EU-fishermen-UK-waters-Defra-Mike-Hookem

Now Gove is a traitor. Lol

 

[Steve in Japan]

Important piece: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...political-deadlock-life-raft?CMP=share_btn_tw

A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day | Vernon Bogdanor

"Remain voting Professor, writing in the Guardian, advocates a 2nd Referendum" shocker.

 

[nicko31]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...Gove-EU-fishermen-UK-waters-Defra-Mike-Hookem

Now Gove is a traitor. Lol

Actually starting to warm to Gove, doesn't seem to be as bad as Environment Minister as I thought he would be. As for this, if only Nige had done more as an MEP, what was it 1 in 43 meetings on fisheries?

 

[ManOfSussex]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...Gove-EU-fishermen-UK-waters-Defra-Mike-Hookem

Now Gove is a traitor. Lol

When the truth is fishermen were told complete fantasises by Vote Leave. Never mind. They knew that quite a while back. The pennies are starting to drop that nobody is going to be any better off other than those who wont get hit by The EU Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive in 2019.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Actually starting to warm to Gove, doesn't seem to be as bad as Environment Minister as I thought he would be. As for this, if only Nige had done more as an MEP, what was it 1 in 43 meetings on fisheries?

In fairness he's only succeeding Andrea Leadsom, it's hardly a hard act to follow.