[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

Better late than never.

More good news ... Easy Jet recruiting 1200 new staff (which is odd as I remember peeps on here suggesting all air traffic to the EU might cease after Brexit)

Amazon expanding its UK headquarters (450 new staff)

Production among UK manufacturers grew at the fastest pace for 22 years and is expected to continue to rise. A weaker pound not all bad news then.

But will they be British Jobs?https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/14/easyjet-austria-eu-flights-brexit

 

[Butch Willykins]

The countries outside the EU already have things in place. The UK has the same things in place as being part of the EU, but are going to effectively throw these out and have to start all over again and will need to have all these in place by April 2019.

The article only covers a few areas, there are loads more that will impact on your daily life once we are out.

I'm sure we'll be just fine. You disagree. Neither of us will change the others point of view. Goodnight, god bless.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Liam Fox and the rest of the Government clueless on implications post Brexit. Who would ever have guessed?

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/brussels-attacks-liam-foxs-ignorant-remarks-chlorinated-chicken-eu-trade-deal-us

Looks desperate and incompetent.

 

[Baldseagull]

and pray what happens to all the European commerce and business that rely on those flights into europe? what of the European transatlantic routes that traverse UK airspace, they just going to mak massivly expensive detours?

i do love how some remainers think that the EU will just throw up a drawbridge and adovate that such a organisation would be something you should be a member of.

I think you are confused mate, it is not the EU throwing up a drawbridge, we are by refusing to have the ECJ govern anything we do.
Nobody is aiming for the situation where there is no permission to land planes in EU countries, but there has to be a deal in place for it to happen, remember that for some, no deal is better than a bad deal, no deal means no flights, amongst other things.

 

[beorhthelm]

But we are buying these goods under EU deals not UK deals. We are likely to be shopping in Aldi but at Waitrose prices due to tariffs being imposed.

no... i dont know why this myth persists, if you remove tariffs, goods are cheaper. we'd remove tariffs leaving the EU. though you've missed the point anyway, which was whether we can shop at all or not.

 

[beorhthelm]

No, really, that is exactly what IS possible. Why should other member states (Germany, Italy, France etc) keep paying into EU coffers whilst we get the same major benefits without paying? Don't get all statistics and numbers and graphs about it, just look at the principle of it all. The Brexit without pain argument really does not stack up.

But the UK will have stopped paying them any money (them as one big collective) and so the membership benefits are withdrawn. It really is very, very simple........you cannot have your cake and eat it.

looks like you havent followed through on your own analogy. i wasnt talking about getting benefits from membership without paying in, im refering to the misguided view that trade and commerce with the EU ends in 2019.

 

[GT49er]

Can't we just put a stop to this madness?

Hopefully no we can't (not that it is madness anyway). It's the real world, and what is going to happen.

Brexit is going to bankrupt the country:

No it isn't. Stop dreaming.

As a British EU negotiator, I can tell you that Brexit is going to be far worse than anyone could have guessed.

Then as a British EU negotiator you should resign, and make way for a better one; one who doesn't want it to fail would be a significant improvement.

 

[kevo]

Then as a British EU negotiator you should resign, and make way for a better one; one who doesn't want it to fail would be a significant improvement.

It's not me - it's the writer of the article!!!

Brexiters burying their heads in the sand as always. It is going to be a DISASTER.

 

[cunning fergus]

Think of it like Tescos Club card points. In reality you give them money on an ongoing basis, they make a profit out of you. But there are some benefits, great choice, special offers, good prices and the bonus prizes of Clubcard exclusives like converting a fivers worth of points into £20 of restaurant vouchers. Winner! Now you change your mind and shop at Aldi. Sure its got great prices, but far less choice. Special offers? Well, on unknown brands that you have never heard of. And as for the really juicy benefits like money off your shopping through points, or many, many FREE meals out via the Club card deal?

'Well............you are not shopping with us anymore are you sir, not putting a bit in our coffers and earning a bit the other way too? You see, it is a bit like being in a club sir, you pay in but you get membership deals and offers...........now we cannot offer these to non members can we sir? Kind of undermines the reason to pay membership fees now doesn't it sir? Goodbye.'

It's not like the Tesco club card though is it, and it certainly isn't a club.

I'm not aware of any club that operates a policy that requires less than 10% of its membership to pay the fees for the remaining 90%.

If you want to use a metaphor, then being in the EU is like a tax, we pay more tax than other countries bar Germany because we are richer than most, our money is then re-distributed to poorer countries.

In return for our tax we have limited influence due to not being in the euro and have to abide by rules imposed by an unelected politburo, like freedom of movement, that have been roundly rejected by the majority of the electorate.

No taxation without representation is a refrain that makes sense in the EU construct...........an old adage, people went to war for it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

looks like you havent followed through on your own analogy. i wasnt talking about getting benefits from membership without paying in, im refering to the misguided view that trade and commerce with the EU ends in 2019.

Of course it won't end...it will just be on terms beneficial to the EU....which unfortunately means detrimental to the UK.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think you are confused mate, it is not the EU throwing up a drawbridge, we are by refusing to have the ECJ govern anything we do.
Nobody is aiming for the situation where there is no permission to land planes in EU countries, but there has to be a deal in place for it to happen, remember that for some, no deal is better than a bad deal, no deal means no flights, amongst other things.

my contention is this is a load of plop. no deal means reverting to international agreements or where no such deal exists some deal on that specific area will be arranged. as i say, if you think this is not going to happen and the EU is going to shutdown all aviation agreement with UK, what happens to their aviation? seems "no deal" has been morphed into new meaning that nothing at all can happen, no agreements can be made. despite the evidence that agreements exist between countries and the EU to cover all manner of trade, commerce and relations.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's not like the Tesco club card though is it, and it certainly isn't a club.

I'm not aware of any club that operates a policy that requires less than 10% of its membership to pay the fees for the remaining 90%.

If you want to use a metaphor, then being in the EU is like a tax, we pay more tax than other countries bar Germany because we are richer than most, our money is then re-distributed to poorer countries.

In return for our tax we have limited influence due to not being in the euro and have to abide by rules imposed by an unelected politburo, like freedom of movement, that have been roundly rejected by the majority of the electorate.

No taxation without representation is a refrain that makes sense in the EU construct...........an old adage, people went to war for it.

That's a simile, not a metaphor.

 

[cunning fergus]

But we are buying these goods under EU deals not UK deals. We are likely to be shopping in Aldi but at Waitrose prices due to tariffs being imposed.

As consumers we are already paying the price of EU tariffs on goods; we pay tariffs on non EU imports and for eu goods we have things like CAP which keeps prices artificially high.

Out of the EU it could be win-win on both fronts, morally we could help some of the poorest counties in the world with a truly open free trade deals, and prices for goods could actually be cheaper.

http://www.reformthecap.eu/issues/policy-instruments/tariffs

Incredible but true.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

my contention is this is a load of plop. no deal means reverting to international agreements or where no such deal exists some deal on that specific area will be arranged. as i say, if you think this is not going to happen and the EU is going to shutdown all aviation agreement with UK, what happens to their aviation? seems "no deal" has been morphed into new meaning that nothing at all can happen, no agreements can be made. despite the evidence that agreements exist between countries and the EU to cover all manner of trade, commerce and relations.

No, no deal means no deal. It does not mean reverting to previous deals. It is the 'real life' equivalent of the Bosman scenario - the contract does not revert to the previous deal. And sentences begin with capital letters*.

May will sign deals. And they are likely to be shit. And she will say 'Brexit is the will of the pople and this is what we have negociated'. If people are happy with that, who am I to demur?

Massive self-inflicted arse-gouge, though, all round. Is Cameron still being allowed to breathe in and out? It is a travesty if so.

*But they can begin with 'and' in literature and journalism, ranting on NSC being an example of the latter.

 

[Baldseagull]

I'm sure we'll be just fine. You disagree. Neither of us will change the others point of view. Goodnight, god bless.

Fingers crossed eh.

 

[beorhthelm]

No, no deal means no deal. It does not mean reverting to previous deals. It is the 'real life' equivalent of the Bosman scenario - the contract does not revert to the previous deal.

just like a Bosman, another contract can be arranged. seem to overlook the rest of the sentence you highlighted. "no deal" is/was a negotiating position, though maybe misguided in that it says little so has been come to mean what ever the beholder means, good for leavers, terribles for remainers. have a go at answering the question posed to determine you believe the outcome will likely be. on the one hand literally no deals, no agreements on anything, no international fall backs, with consequences for all concerned; or no one single overarching "EU lite" deal but a series of sensible agreements on bilateral and international basisl. the same as happens with every other non-EU nation.

a late night condundrum. the EU have stated a priority is to protect Ireland and ensure open border with NI. with good reason, since most goods to and from Ireland transit UK (majority going no further). how does the EU hierarchy protect their Irish client while apparently holding no agreements with UK?

 

[GT49er]

It's not me - it's the writer of the article!!!

Fair enough - then he (or she) should resign. The last thing we need is twerps who wanted to remain and really don't want Brexit to happen at all to be the ones doing the negotiations.




You have to admire remoaners in a way, though, for their blind stubborn delusion that they are the only ones who can possibly be right.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Fair enough - then he (or she) should resign. The last thing we need is twerps who wanted to remain and really don't want Brexit to happen at all to be the ones doing the negotiations.




You have to admire remoaners in a way, though, for their blind stubborn delusion that they are the only ones who can possibly be right.

Resign from where? Perhaps you should read the article rather than calling for former diplomats/civil servants of this country to resign because they don't sing from the back of the UKIP fag packet.

 

[pastafarian]

So many moaners still confusing arrangements for our withdrawal and negotiated framework for our future relationship with the EU with any future trade deal.

 

[cunning fergus]

That's a simile, not a metaphor.

Absolutely correct, I am heartily ashamed at my lack of grammatical accuracy.

What can you expect from a working class lad from Moulsecoomb................I know my place.