[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

I think had remain won, the EU would have taken that as a green light to shackle us in full stop.

It was effectively a vote to leave or join. Remain was as cunning as the new fraud buzzword, soft or hard Brexit.

I voted leave because I wanted out of the EU and assumed that would mean leaving the trade bloc and the growth killer that is the customs union.

I am sure I am starting to repeat myself again

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If we leave the customs union you will be soon discover what killing growth is all about.

If was your money, would you take this gamble on the basis of trade utopia with the rest of the world?

Wake up May populism ain't working, the UK & US are in complete turmoil, while Europe is almost a sea of calm. She needs to start to listening, and start listening fast

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If we leave the customs union you will be soon discover what killing growth is all about.

If was your money, would you take this gamble on the basis of trade utopia with the rest of the world?

Wake up May populism ain't working, the UK & US are in complete turmoil, while Europe is almost a sea of calm. She needs to start to listening, and start listening fast

I agree with this. Leaving the customs union will be suicidal especially for small to medium sized businesses.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

If we leave the customs union you will be soon discover what killing growth is all about.

If was your money, would you take this gamble on the basis of trade utopia with the rest of the world?

Wake up May populism ain't working, the UK & US are in complete turmoil, while Europe is almost a sea of calm. She needs to start to listening, and start listening fast

Tell that to my relatives in southern Italy who's living standards have been going down the pan since the Euro was first introduced, and not forgetting all the problems with the economic migrants arriving in italy every single day. I used to go every year, they all had new cars, nice clothes, money in their pockets. They had a better standard of living than we did. Sea of calm, yeah may be in luxembourg where all the large companies register for tax, yes those elites that everyone gets angry with, but it's OK when it involves the EU.

 

[nicko31]

Tell that to my relatives in southern Italy who's living standards have been going down the pan since the Euro was first introduced, and not forgetting all the problems with the economic migrants arriving in italy every single day. I used to go every year, they all had new cars, nice clothes, money in their pockets. They had a better standard of living than we did. Sea of calm, yeah may be in luxembourg where all the large companies register for tax, yes those elites that everyone gets angry with, but it's OK when it involves the EU.

Southern Italy has been in a poor state a long time, huge numbers have left over the years, you can't blame that all on boatloads of migrants from North Africa. Do you think they should leave the EUand then things will be happy ever after? I think not, Italy's problem run far deeper than EU and the Euro

 

[beorhthelm]

so who can define this "soft brexit" that is not the hard type, and which is apparently what we opted for in the recent election when we apparently rejected the hard type? (excuse the cynicism, it was remarked how it got little coverage Brexit got for an issue expected to be high profile.)

 

[Titanic]

so who can define this "soft brexit" that is not the hard type, and which is apparently what we opted for in the recent election when we apparently rejected the hard type? (excuse the cynicism, it was remarked how it got little coverage Brexit got for an issue expected to be high profile.)

Brexit means Brexit. Hard / soft / open are all bollocks.

 

[nicko31]

I agree with this. Leaving the customs union will be suicidal especially for small to medium sized businesses.

Problem is many fail to understand modern supply chain and logistics and how integrated our economy is into Europe. If we do exit the customs unions and end up with no tariffs it will come at a heavy price, probably similar to EU membership.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

so who can define this "soft brexit" that is not the hard type, and which is apparently what we opted for in the recent election when we apparently rejected the hard type? (excuse the cynicism, it was remarked how it got little coverage Brexit got for an issue expected to be high profile.)

Good luck getting a reply I have been waiting for a year. Also, a specific definition of this apocalyptic hard/extreme Brexit would be nice.

 

[The Clamp]

When negotiations fail/break down and we end up getting shafted I wonder what excuses leave voters will come up with?
I reckon top will be "Brussels were never going to go easy on us, they hate us for leaving"
Followed by
"We had the wrong person negotiating "
Then
"Remoaner's negativity caused the mess"



Followed up with another crashing denial:

"But we are out and we are Britain so we will be absolutely fine"

As it all comes crashing down around our ears.

 

[nicko31]

Really didn't want a Tory party leadership challenge but May is fast heading for one.

Just seems to be just boxing herself into a corner, she can barely take advice from without her own party, let alone build any consensus with other parties

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/defiant-may-signals-will-not-compromise-hard-brexit/

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Good luck getting a reply I have been waiting for a year. Also, a specific definition of this apocalyptic hard/extreme Brexit would be nice.

1. Norway.

2. Leaving the single market and/or customs union.

Both main parties seem to support 2 but the position is becoming ever more fluid.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

1. Norway.

2. Leaving the single market and/or customs union.

Both main parties seem to support 2 but the position is becoming ever more fluid.

Thanks.

It will be interesting to see how far the hardcore remain MP's are willing to push both parties into reneging on the promises they made during the campaign + manifesto and when May and more imporantlty the Brexiteer Tory Mp's draw a line in the sand.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Thanks.

It will be interesting to see how far the hardcore remain MP's are willing to push both parties into reneging on the promises they made during the campaign + manifesto and when May and more imporantlty the Brexiteer Tory Mp's draw a line in the sand.

As the DUP talks continue it will become ever more difficult for Mrs May to criticise anyone at all for reneging on manifesto promises. On this subject you are right to suggest that the Labour Party have said that they intend to leave the Single Market. The problem they have is that holding to that position will make it difficult to deliver other commitments. Something will have to give. The Tories are in a similar position.

I am having a conversation with a Leaver friend who believes that Brexit is dead. As a Remainer I disagree with him. We agree however that the key ingredient is the mood of the public. If it is seen to change then pragmatism will prevail, particularly but not only in the Labour Party.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Thanks.

It will be interesting to see how far the hardcore remain MP's are willing to push both parties into reneging on the promises they made during the campaign + manifesto and when May and more imporantlty the Brexiteer Tory Mp's draw a line in the sand.

One doesn't have to push the Brexiteers to renege on their promises as their big ticket items unravelled almost immediately. What did their bus say?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

As the DUP talks continue it will become ever more difficult for Mrs May to criticise anyone at all for reneging on manifesto promises. On this subject you are right to suggest that the Labour Party have said that they intend to leave the Single Market. The problem they have is that holding to that position will make it difficult to deliver other commitments. Something will have to give. The Tories are in a similar position.

I am having a conversation with a Leaver friend who believes that Brexit is dead. As a Remainer I disagree with him. We agree however that the key ingredient is the mood of the public. If it is seen to change then pragmatism will prevail, particularly but not only in the Labour Party.

Labour managed to nullify the Brexit debate (and attract a big segment of UKIP voters) by promising to end free movement which they know means leaving membership of the single market. Rowing back on that would be dangerous for them. Yes as you suggest other commitments and statements seem contradictory it's almost like they arrived at a cynical position of expediancy not really knowing how to deliver it (worked though).

The Tories are teetering on the brink, the battle between the remain element led by Hammond and the large Brexiteer block will probably tip them over the edge. A game of brinkmanship whilst trying to avoid a civil war and a general election. If a majority vote to leave plus over 80% voting for parties committed to Brexit, ending free movement, exiting the single market/customs union doesn't matter I don't think the mood of the public should suddenly become significant now.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

One doesn't have to push the Brexiteers to renege on their promises as their big ticket items unravelled almost immediately. What did their bus say?

Vote Leave?

 

[nicko31]

39% growth in UK Aerospace business in the last 5 years. Another British export success story about to be put at huge risk..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/14/aerospace-industry-warns-against-hard-brexit/

 

[Blue3]

Have no fear it will be such a soft Brexit concrete will be a gelatinous strawberry moose by comparison

 

[nicko31]

Have no fear it will be such a soft Brexit concrete will be a gelatinous strawberry moose by comparison

The 30 year Europe war in the Tory party just goes on and on with Hammond calling for a soft Brexit in this speech tonight.

Could be the hard liners be their own biggest enemies in the end by overplaying their hand?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/14/hard-brexit-risks-no-brexit/

 

[Titanic]

Have no fear it will be such a soft Brexit concrete will be a gelatinous strawberry moose by comparison

If leaving the single market, leaving the customs union and leaving the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice is 'soft' then I am happy with that.