[Politics] Brexit

[Jim in the West]

yes, just like Emirates, Singapore, Quantas, American... etc all have trouble flying into the EU. i dont know why the Remainers keep wanting to play hypothetical "if the EU want to be nasty and force a hard Brexit" scenarios.

neither do i understand or why there is a myth that May, Davis, et al are targeting a hard Brexit. they haven't been so specific, they are saying that if the EU don't want to play nice, dont want to accept any compromises, we'll be prepared for that scenario. its up to the EU how far they are willing to go to be seen to punish our withdrawal.

Yes - your final point is the nub of it. What WE want is not the issue - it's really down to the EU (or rather, 27 national governments, plus several regional governments who also need to agree). I would take issue, however, with your point about us "being prepared for that scenario" (where the EU won't accept compromises). I think we are massively under-prepared for that....as soon as anyone raises the practicalities of a hard Brexit, they are decried as a scare-mongerer. The mantra is that "Brexit means Brexit", and "It's the will of the people". Ultimately it will be interesting to see just how willing the people are to accept all the myriad downsides of life on our own.

 

[Soulman]

Yes - your final point is the nub of it. What WE want is not the issue - it's really down to the EU (or rather, 27 national governments, plus several regional governments who also need to agree). I would take issue, however, with your point about us "being prepared for that scenario" (where the EU won't accept compromises). I think we are massively under-prepared for that....as soon as anyone raises the practicalities of a hard Brexit, they are decried as a scare-mongerer. The mantra is that "Brexit means Brexit", and "It's the will of the people". Ultimately it will be interesting to see just how willing the people are to accept all the myriad downsides of life on our own.

You put your opinions over well, and perhaps we are/were not prepared, we do have time though.
However " how willing the people are to accept all the myriad downsides of life on our own. ".......perhaps things might not pan out how you think, the upsides?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Do you honestly believe those figures, I don't.

Figures produced by The British Medical Association on their members? Yes I do.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Hmm, perhaps, or were you just being clever.

This was the text you used when replying to my post : " don't think you have to be well-educated to write acceptable English, you just have to care about your country's language"
Naturally, in light of your stance and some previous posts, i thought the reply to MY post was aimed at me.

...and any thoughts on the rest of the post you respond to here?

 

[Soulman]

...and any thoughts on the rest of the post you respond to here?

Really, i have just answered the demands of studio 150, i will respond (do i have to respond to every bit of every post) in a while, if that is ok with you.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Really, i have just answered the demands of studio 150, i will respond (do i have to respond to every bit of every post) in a while, if that is ok with you.

'Every bit of a post'? It was about 90 percent of it, and written in response to a point you made. But I demand nothing of you; you must do as you please.

 

[Soulman]

That was a bit unnecessary given (a) I wasn't criticising you and (b) I ignored an absurd spelling mistake in the middle of your post about the English language.

I suspect though that the trope that "We're the only true patriots" is among the favourite comfort blankets of Brexiters, closely followed by "Remainers must hate England". The referendum was not a vote on patriotism at all. I have always been grateful to have been born an Englishman, have always taken great pride in many of our nation's achievements - particularly those of 75 years ago - and like most supporters of a traditionally lower league football team have a strong sense of 'place'. Patriotism takes many forms but I don't mind admitting that my eyes prickle at the sound of a Lancaster bomber, and other things besides.

So this is me, the person you casually dismiss as not caring much for his country. An easy, self-satisfied insult to throw. You'll doubtless be writing off millions of other Remain voters in the same way, bathing in the warmth of superior self-righteousness as you do so.

You are blisteringly wrong and reveal more about yourself than anyone else. My concerns about what I see as the rancid, divisive populism of the right and my wish to see Britain at the centre of an evolving European community are driven by a patriot belief in this country.

I think you are very wrong about Brexit but I don't doubt your patriotism. Do not doubt mine, or that of others.

Ok, more answers coming up, as requested.
Firstly, how come you seem so sensitive, when it has been ok for Remainers to deride those who voted Brexit, you know lumping us all under the little Englanders, racist etc etc.
Where have i mentioned " "Remainers must hate England"...... or ""We're the only true patriots" is among the favourite comfort blankets of Brexiters"....considering some of my relatives voted Remain.

"The referendum was not a vote on patriotism at all."..... correct, i don't think i have mentioned it was.

"Patriotism takes many forms but I don't mind admitting that my eyes prickle at the sound of a Lancaster bomber, and other things besides." Good, is now the time to also let you know my eyes light up at the sound of a Lancaster bomber.

" An easy, self-satisfied insult to throw.".........i think i have taken a few from you, you would not have to go back to far..... this latest one here " You'll doubtless be writing off millions of other Remain voters in the same way, bathing in the warmth of superior self-righteousness as you do so."

I usually put up my opinion, i actually respect a fair few of the Remain posters, they have a different opinion to us "stupid, thick, moronic etc" Leave voters but manage to get their opinions over.

I think you maybe courting sympathy

And last " My concerns about what I see as the rancid, divisive populism of the right".............Nice, but i worry about the far left, and what they have/will do to this country......the difference is i have not used the word "rancid"

 

[JCL666]

Nearly 3000 pages and no chance of this thread ever getting beyond being sh1t.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This just illustrates my point in that you don't answer questions, but live in some fantasy world where your opinion on something unrelated to the question is seen by you as an answer, and when challenged you just say I have answered, you don't like my opinion.

I think you're being a little unfair here. [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION] does occasionally answer a question. It will be in the form of a disjointed cut-and-pasted response which was clearly and obviously sewn together from one or more other posters or found on the internet. Post 27348 is a great example. Good luck with trying to read it.

 

[Soulman]

I think you're being a little unfair here. [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION] does occasionally answer a question. It will be in the form of a disjointed cut-and-pasted response which was clearly and obviously sewn together from one or more other posters or found on the internet. Post 27348 is a great example. Good luck with trying to read it.

Post 27348 is yet again answering questions, the cut and pastes from the poster are needed to address those like yourself who seem to have trouble with understanding "disjointed" posts. No words on Post 27348 were "found on the internet".
As i have stated before, i normally respond to posts with an opinion, i do not keep asking questions and going on and on until i get an answer.......you and your ilk are always asking for proof/links, yet if i supply them then it is a "cut-and-pasted response", which apparently is ok for the endless questioner, but not ok for the response/responder that you do not agree with.
In short, in true left wing style, democracy stops when you do not get your own way.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Ok, more answers coming up, as requested.
Firstly, how come you seem so sensitive, when it has been ok for Remainers to deride those who voted Brexit, you know lumping us all under the little Englanders, racist etc etc.
Where have i mentioned " "Remainers must hate England"...... or ""We're the only true patriots" is among the favourite comfort blankets of Brexiters"....considering some of my relatives voted Remain.

"The referendum was not a vote on patriotism at all."..... correct, i don't think i have mentioned it was.

"Patriotism takes many forms but I don't mind admitting that my eyes prickle at the sound of a Lancaster bomber, and other things besides." Good, is now the time to also let you know my eyes light up at the sound of a Lancaster bomber.

" An easy, self-satisfied insult to throw.".........i think i have taken a few from you, you would not have to go back to far..... this latest one here " You'll doubtless be writing off millions of other Remain voters in the same way, bathing in the warmth of superior self-righteousness as you do so."

I usually put up my opinion, i actually respect a fair few of the Remain posters, they have a different opinion to us "stupid, thick, moronic etc" Leave voters but manage to get their opinions over.

I think you maybe courting sympathy

And last " My concerns about what I see as the rancid, divisive populism of the right".............Nice, but i worry about the far left, and what they have/will do to this country......the difference is i have not used the word "rancid"

Many thanks.

As your implication that I was unpatriotic was out of context and came completely out of the blue I assumed that it was made simply because I supported Remain. I'm sorry if this was wrong (although if I am I would love to know what your reason was). Certainly, the charge that Remainers have some sort of grudge against their country has been made many times.

Unlike, as far as I can tell, the charge that other posters are racist morons. Apart from a slightly hamfisted attempt at wordplay on 'Mormon', the only recent time I can recall anything of this kind was a month or so back when a poster was called a lying and hypocritical moron. Is this what you were thinking of?

To end with an agreement. I find the far left pretty objectionable as well.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

on the plus side a 50k reduction of immigrants in this country ........is it the start of the big exodus
regards
DR

 

[pastafarian]

Haven't posted on this thread for a month or so, but thought I might try to bring things back to the practical issues (might be more relevant than discussions about grammar, etc).

Anyway, one interesting aspect of Brexit is the potential for UK airlines to no longer be able to fly to destinations in the EU. Given Mrs May's desire for a hard Brexit (and the fact that the ECJ is a red line for her), it is entirely possible that - once we are out of the EU - air services between the UK and the EU have to cease. It seems a remote possibility, but once out of the EU, and in the absence of a replacement agreement, we will need to fall back on historic Air Services Agreements with individual EU nations. If EU countries want to play hard-ball they can simply cancel those agreements (with one year's notice). And in the case of Spain, our ASA with them was cancelled some time ago. So, if you are hoping to go on holiday to Spain in 2019, you might have to drive. Logically the Spanish (in particular) will want to welcome UK holiday-makers. But (once Article 50 is triggered) they have a huge bargaining chip. Plus - they can throw Gibraltar into the mix, to make it really interesting.
.

This scenario would mean that The EU were playing extreme hardball during negotiations about air travel.
Given that this scenario would mean European Airlines could no longer fly into the UK either how do you think The EU wil justify and explain their decision to their own citizens that they can fly all over the world just not the UK, not even for transit. How would they justify it also to international tourists and businessmen. Thats an awful lot of European jobs lost that feed off the Airline Industry. I wonder what EU businessmen and Unions will feel about that, not to mention the newly unemployed.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This scenario would mean that The EU were playing extreme hardball during negotiations about air travel.
Given that this scenario would mean European Airlines could no longer fly into the UK either how do you think The EU wil justify and explain their decision to their own citizens that they can fly all over the world just not the UK, not even for transit. How would they justify it also to international tourists and businessmen. Thats an awful lot of European jobs lost that feed off the Airline Industry. I wonder what EU businessmen and Unions will feel about that, not to mention the newly unemployed.

Exactly. Of all the ludicrous conspiracy theories on this thread this one take the biscuit. I find it difficult to believe that anyone is making this claim without adding that such a move would be reciprocated. It is a negotiation and both sides will negotiate.

 

[pastafarian]

Exactly. Of all the ludicrous conspiracy theories on this thread this one take the biscuit. I find it difficult to believe that anyone is making this claim without adding that such a move would be reciprocated. It is a negotiation and both sides will negotiate.

The whole reciprocity aspect does seem to be absent on some peoples radar especially with the more colourful doom scenarios

 

[studio150]

So will 2019 actually be 2029 or later.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/22/brexit-negotiations-might-take-10-years-if-were-lucky?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[The Clamp]

So rude.

Yet so true.

 

[cunning fergus]

Some figures were released by The BMA yesterday in regards to their members following The Brexit vote:

55% of EU doctors don't feel the UK Government does enough for international doctors.
42% say they're considering leaving the UK
10,000 NHS doctors qualified in the EEA - that's 6.6% of the UK medical workforce.

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/2017/february/an-exit-from-brexit

Doctors are capitalists, they will go where they can earn most money, and that's why thousands of them are here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10463755/Britains-GPs-are-the-best-paid-in-the-industrialized-world.html

For those that have arrived from poorer countries, with much less resources than the UK, the NHS should send them back.

150 years ago Britain was guilty of stripping natural resources from poor countries........taking tens of thousands of medical workers from poorer countries to work here is a moral disgrace.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So will 2019 actually be 2029 or later.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/22/brexit-negotiations-might-take-10-years-if-were-lucky?CMP=share_btn_tw

I love the line 'no-one had warned them it was going to be this complicated.' It's almost satire.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Doctors are capitalists