[Politics] Brexit

[portslade seagull]

I thought David Cameron tried to change aspects of the EU? Couldn't even get the 'emergency handbrake' through.

You can't change something that doesn't want to be changed.

Whichever way even if the result was to stay it would have been 27 against 1. That's why the vote went the other way. If they could have lynched Cameron for asking they probably would have done. Merkels dream must not be broken

 

[GT49er]

You fail to understand the role of parliament.

Oh I do. Rather better than you, frankly.

There are other options. The most sane would be to return to the EU and say that as far as the UK electorate is concerned the EU needs reform and that reform should be forthcoming.

Reform the EU?


Cloud ........ land ...... cuckoo!

 

[GT49er]

Actually it was in a way. In fact, parliamentarians had taken us into the European Economic Community (then known as Common Market) before the referendum in 1975. Our MPs voted us in because they felt it best for the country. This was against a backdrop of opposition to the EC (CM) at the time.

The vote in 1975 merely ratified a decision parliament had already taken.

Has it really taken 40 years and you still don't understand the difference between the Common Market and the EU? What seemed a good idea to a majority back then has turned out to be a horse of a very different colour, and has been rejected. The experiment failed.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No, I'm referring to the 1972 vote in parliament. That was not a decision by Tory grandees, it was a vote by parliamentarians. That is why we elect them. Their view then, and we hold them to account to review all the complexities in law, politics, economics and legislation, was that the nation would be better served in the long run by being in the Common Market.

Now, as an electorate, we are saying that we do not believe the current status quo is in our interests. As an electorate we may be right, we may be wrong. Parliamentarians are there to make the difficult decisions on our behalf. That is the point of representative democracy. It's not just about holding a referendum and then blindly signing article 50.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

If we take your logic one step further it sounds like you would agree with Parliamentarians voting in legislation to abolish elections and for them to sit in perpetuity. I would argue that on such constitutional matters they have no
such right. We the people vote them in to make decisions within a framework and if there are to be changes to that framework then we the people decide.

 

[Hamilton]

Has it really taken 40 years and you still don't understand the difference between the Common Market and the EU? What seemed a good idea to a majority back then has turned out to be a horse of a very different colour, and has been rejected. The experiment failed.

Christ on a bike! My post was nothing about the difference between the CM and the EU. It was about the role of parliament. But if you want to use the post for some cheap score to make you feel better then carry on.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Christ on a bike! My post was nothing about the difference between the CM and the EU. It was about the role of parliament. But if you want to use the post for some cheap score to make you feel better then carry on.

I've given up debating due to sneering like this from him and other Brexiters.

 

[melias shoes]

Geez! With a clusterf**k of an organisational chart like that, I'm even happier we voted to leave than I was yesterday!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The result of the 1975 referendum was somewhat more decisive.

Yes it was, although let's apply the logic of the present day Remainers. The argument goes that last year's voters did not know the implications of their vote so there should be a rethink. Why though was this logic not applied for another 40 odd years after 1975 ? The vote in 1975 was to join the Common Market and that entity bore little resemblance to the way in which the EU would change and yet successive Governments did not ask the people for an opinion. Given his recent speech it is ironic that this includes Tony Blair's Government.
I understand the case for EU membership but I have difficulty with logic applied to the Referendum results.

 

[melias shoes]

A possibility more likely in a divided Europe.

I would stop worrying about Europe fighting each other and worry about Putin's Russia wanting his empire back and more. Not to mention China and the complete nutter that is in charge of North Korea.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I've given up debating due to sneering like this from him and other Brexiters.

That's a shame. I have encountered a lot of sneering from the Remain side and yet I am persisting because I enjoy civilized debate with others on the Remain side. Several times I have decided not to revisit the thread but I return to share ideas with people such as yourself.

 

[melias shoes]

I've given up debating due to sneering like this from him and other Brexiters.

Oh how smug the remainers were when they thought they had it in the bag June 23rd. So I'm sorry if you think brexiteers are sneering but the smugness from the Remainers justifies it.

 

[Soulman]

No he couldn't. But it the response of a crybaby snowflake to run off sulking the second they don't get their own way.
We should fight for what we think is right and take charge! But we are 52% snowflake bedwetting wet flannels now it seems.

Maybe look through the 2710 pages to see who the " crybaby snowflakes" are.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No he couldn't. But it the response of a crybaby snowflake to run off sulking the second they don't get their own way.
We should fight for what we think is right and take charge! But we are 52% snowflake bedwetting wet flannels now it seems.

You seem to have changed your debate style considerably since I was last active on this thread. Neither side of this debate can be generalized with such insults regardless of how oft they are repeated.

 

[pastafarian]

We should fight for what we think is right and take charge! .

we did fight for what we think is right.....and won......we are leaving

But we are 52% snowflake bedwetting wet flannels now it seems.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Oh how smug the remainers were when they thought they had it in the bag June 23rd. So I'm sorry if you think brexiteers are sneering but the smugness from the Remainers justifies it.

I saw no smugness, but if it justifies your opinion, there's not a lot I can do.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Just using their language and style. Fed up of certain brexiteers just thinking they can do that to others.

Can I suggest you just ignore such people ? There is plenty of room for civilized and non insulting debate. I have had to put up with an enormous amount of stereotyping of my views, my intelligence and my social views. There are people on both sides who let themselves down. It's just advice so feel free to ignore. It just works for me.

 

[pastafarian]

Triggered ?
Bedwetter ?
Safe Space ?
Snowflake ?

Im going to need a bigger Bingo card

 

[cunning fergus]

I am not baling out, I am simply rationing the amount of time I spend talking to someone who gives every impression of Stanley Baldwin, standing on a soapbox, hands grasping both lapels of his suit, staring in one direction only.

On this thread you have given contributors your own views freely, and I am surprised that you are now becoming discriminatory about who you want to engage with.

Why don't we go back to the issue at hand, why is Barnsley's demographic evidence that immigration was not relevant to Barnsley's vote at Brexit?

It was you that referenced the high proportion of white British in your explanation.......maybe I am missing something?

 

[cunning fergus]

Look, it has equal status as the other two branches. Is it perfect? No, probably not. But you are the one that pissed their pants and ran off crying to their safe space with a referendum instead of being a grown up and facing the issue and campaigning and changing the inadequacies of the system.

This doesn't answer the question I have asked you, what law making Power does the EU Parliament have?

Thanks for highlighting the very confusing governance framework that the EU has been deliberately put in place. This merely demonstrates the lack of accountability for voters. Of all these organs of Government the electorate only elects those of a single legislative arm.

The bit I really like is that there are 3 EU Presidential roles in this structure, and yet none are directly elected by the electorates. This should be shocking but (as I am sure you know) there are 5 Presidents in the EU structure who once a year pull together a report.

These includes Mario Draghi (President of ECB) and Joroen Dijsselbloem (President of the Eurogroup).

It's fvcking hysterical isn't it really........5 Presidents and not one democratically elected into their office by the electorate.

You have to give it to them really, what a swizz........good job enough of your lucid minded compatriots saw through it eh?

 

[cunning fergus]

Calm down dear, the geezer asked when he had a chance to vote for EU Council, so I told him.

Quite calm love, merely providing a gentle reminder for some of the feeble minded that the discussion on the EU's democratic legitimacy needs to move on, EU reform is coming and mainly because of Brexit. I have no doubt that in the end this will be positive overall, the EU will have to cut its budget and largesse, European nations will regain their sovereignty.

Once again the peoples of Europe owe a debt of gratitude to the fortitude of the British people.

Makes your heart swell with pride doesn't it?