[Politics] Brexit

[GT49er]

Hilarious. One of the greatest and most obvious lies was the charge that Turkey would soon be joining the EU throwing open the doors to 80m Muslims.

Do keep up; the 'conversation' was about Turkish workers coming to work here temporarily, not about Turkey joining the EU. Two different things - but keep twisting things to suit yourself in the belief that Brexiters, who you believe to be less intelligent than you, won't notice!

 

[Baldseagull]

Of course the vote was before Erdogan went full dictator, and there was a live ongoing application for Turkey to join the EU. Easy to forget.

Another one for you [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION]

 

[Baldseagull]

Of course the vote was before Erdogan went full dictator, and there was a live ongoing application for Turkey to join the EU. Easy to forget.

If Turkey ever get to the point where they have fulfilled all the chapters, and it comes before the council, I am not sure who would veto it fastest. It will take many years of Turkey demonstrating that it can be a good neighbour before Cyprus or Greece will accept their membership.

 

[pastafarian]

I wasn't aware of the fixed term permit being mentioned before the Brexit vote though. As I understood it, agricultural worker numbers have fallen since the vote, hence the NFU's concern and wanting to trial the permits next year for non-EU workers, long before freedom of movement has ended. I merely mentioned Turkey as it's a populous country, close by, and non-EU. Perhaps we'll take workers who want to come here from Commonwealth countries like Pakistan instead.

It was mentioned before the vote, not very much i grant you, and was referenced quickly amongst these pages somewhere.....god knows where.
there was a fixed term permit scheme in place only a few years ago which was abandoned when Rumania and Bulgaria became the last two to have full access. Those in agriculture were saying after brexit some sort of similar scheme would need to be reintroduced for short seasonal work permits.

If they are concerned they might not get the workers needed next year whilst we are still in the EU it only makes sense to maybe bring forward any plans to start it up again.
The thing is though its controlled immigration,bringing in people with confirmed jobs in areas where we are short. Pretty much what the whole leave side were advocating.

I presume we wont go down the route of the Poles who struggle now for farm labourers and get slave labour from North Korea to fill the gap. (i understand they have recently stopped this after being rumbled.)

 

[BigGully]

Showing all the signs of some other leavers on here, in not reading and understanding what has been written before jumping in with a comment that has not bearing on the previous one.

......all the 2017 figures....... this is a big clue for you. I have not stated anywhere that we are (currently) in a global slowdown, but if you can prove otherwise please do share

Sorry, your words dont make sense .....

 

[pastafarian]

Hilarious. One of the greatest and most obvious lies was the charge that Turkey would soon be joining the EU throwing open the doors to 80m Muslims.

you seem to be rewriting the discussion already
i can clearly remember leavers saying Turkey would eventually join but not "soon", sometimes mentioning it may be decades and decades away......but still a bad idea.
some remainers were saying it would never happen.

you are gently moving the goalposts

 

[Lincoln Imp]

you seem to be rewriting the discussion already
i can clearly remember leavers saying Turkey would eventually join but not "soon", sometimes mentioning it may be decades and decades away......but still a bad idea.
some remainers were saying it would never happen.

you are gently moving the goalposts

No. You are. One of the weasel-word narratives at the time was that Turkey was now 'set to join the EU', which about 99% of the population would, especially given the context, take to mean that it was about to. As in "The Syrian regime is set to take over Aleppo". As the Brexit-spinners intended.

A couple of NSC's most adamant Brexiteers, possibly including you, then claimed that by screaming "Turkey is set to join the EU", Leave campaigners actually meant that "Turkey might one day manage to progress its snail-like application process beyond the velocity that has so far seen it take 30 years to get nowhere very far".

You're still doing it.

Gently moving the goalposts? You're digging them up and setting them on fire. Turkey was a classic Brexit scare tactic aimed at frightening enough people into thinking that alien immigrants were about to swamp us.

 

[studio150]

Sorry, your words dont make sense .....

 

[pastafarian]

No. You are. One of the weasel-word narratives at the time was that Turkey was now 'set to join the EU', which about 99% of the population would, especially given the context, take to mean that it was about to. As in "The Syrian regime is set to take over Aleppo". As the Brexit-spinners intended.

A couple of NSC's most adamant Brexiteers, possibly including you, then claimed that by screaming "Turkey is set to join the EU", Leave campaigners actually meant that "Turkey might one day manage to progress its snail-like application process beyond the velocity that has so far seen it take 30 years to get nowhere very far".

You're still doing it.

Gently moving the goalposts? You're digging them up and setting them on fire. Turkey was a classic Brexit scare tactic aimed at frightening enough people into thinking that alien immigrants were about to swamp us.

No it wasnt, Thats just what the bedwetters were trying to tell everyone it was,oh look more anti immigrant rhetoric coming from leave,they are really nasty racists.
Turkey was a legitimate debate about an Asian country joining the EU that would push the EU external border to Iran,Iraq and Syria.

i dont remember anyone thinking Turkey was joining imminently.I can imagine remainers inventing that to fit their false narrative.
Most people mentioned years ahead even decades,some even further than that.
I remember people saying they were thinking very long term about all the issues, considering what was best for future generations and the country in the long haul and not being concerned about just the right now,and me me me like so many of the young voters showed themselves up as.

Turkey will eventually join, long way off mind,but will join.
Feel free to say Turkey will never ever join the EU

 

[Lincoln Imp]

No it wasnt, Thats just what the bedwetters were trying to tell everyone it was,oh look more anti immigrant rhetoric coming from leave,they are really nasty racists.
Turkey was a legitimate debate about an Asian country joining the EU that would push the EU external border to Iran,Iraq and Syria.

i dont remember anyone thinking Turkey was joining imminently.I can imagine remainers inventing that to fit their false narrative.
Most people mentioned years ahead even decades,some even further than that.
I remember people saying they were thinking very long term about all the issues, considering what was best for future generations and the country in the long haul and not being concerned about just the right now,and me me me like so many of the young voters showed themselves up as.

Turkey will eventually join, long way off mind,but will join.
Feel free to say Turkey will never ever join the EU

You don't remember anyone thinking Turkey was joining imminently? You think the Leavers' suggestions that its 72m inhabitants were set to join the EU were just a remainers' invention? You reckon that 'most people' - including Farage and his chums on the tabloids I suppose - mentioned that Turkey's succession would be 'decades' away? I am sorry, but you are being utterly delusional. It is not actually possible to have a rational debate with someone in pulpit rant mode so please carry on - I'll dodge the spittle if that's all right.

 

[BigGully]

Remember I didnt indicate which of your post didnt make much sense, it will take a time .......

 

[alfredmizen]

You don't remember anyone thinking Turkey was joining imminently? You think the Leavers' suggestions that its 72m inhabitants were set to join the EU were just a remainers' invention? You reckon that 'most people' - including Farage and his chums on the tabloids I suppose - mentioned that Turkey's succession would be 'decades' away? I am sorry, but you are being utterly delusional. It is not actually possible to have a rational debate with someone in pulpit rant mode so please carry on - I'll dodge the spittle if that's all right.

If turkey hadn't had that abortive coup they would be a lot nearer joining than you're suggesting.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If turkey hadn't had that abortive coup they would be a lot nearer joining than you're suggesting.

Even the benighted David Cameron was saying it would be (I think) 30 years before Turkey would be qualified to join. And then, of course, they would have to have persuaded all EU members that they should be allowed to. Anyone with any interest in the subject knew that. But many didn't and they were the target of the inpleasant propaganda put about by elements of the Leave campaign. To a degree, it surely worked.

 

[alfredmizen]

Even the benighted David Cameron was saying it would be (I think) 30 years before Turkey would be qualified to join. And then, of course, they would have to have persuaded all EU members that they should be allowed to. Anyone with any interest in the subject knew that. But many didn't and they were the target of the inpleasant propaganda put about by elements of the Leave campaign. To a degree, it surely worked.

Sounds like it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

No. You are. One of the weasel-word narratives at the time was that Turkey was now 'set to join the EU', which about 99% of the population would, especially given the context, take to mean that it was about to. As in "The Syrian regime is set to take over Aleppo". As the Brexit-spinners intended.

A couple of NSC's most adamant Brexiteers, possibly including you, then claimed that by screaming "Turkey is set to join the EU", Leave campaigners actually meant that "Turkey might one day manage to progress its snail-like application process beyond the velocity that has so far seen it take 30 years to get nowhere very far".

You're still doing it.

Gently moving the goalposts? You're digging them up and setting them on fire. Turkey was a classic Brexit scare tactic aimed at frightening enough people into thinking that alien immigrants were about to swamp us.

they were by using Turkey as an exit point into the EU, WHEN ARE YOU LEAVING THE COUNTRY OUT OF INTEREST
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

284k v 289k to June 2016 according to this though - https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

My point is, in terms of free movement ending, we will still have immigration to this country, including unskilled and skilled workers, though the number and demographic of our immigration could change. If the NFU is wanting to trial a non-EU fixed-term work permit scheme next summer, due to recruitment shortfalls in agriculture and horticulture before we've even left The EU, where will these non-EU workers come from? There's a large, young non EU population close by in Turkey, many educated and fluent in English who could fill whatever those roles and others if required.

well that will be a near 50% reduction if they're stopped from entering ........not to be sniffed at in anyone's book
regards
DR

 

[cunning fergus]

We had a vote in the 70's to join Europe, only you lot did not accept the democratic decision, or does campaigning for the other side only work one way?

Not quite, in 73 Heath took us in without an election in a stitch up in Parliament. Heath never admitted to the electorate what they were joining, even in 73 the plan was to integrate the EEC into a United States of Europe with a single government and currency.

Labour then came into power and held a referendum to validate Heath's decision.

That decision was to join a trading community of 7 European countries. There was no sign then of what the EEC would become, although the lines of Benn and Powell highlighted their concerns about sovereignty.

In light of how many voters over the age of 58 voted leave this year (bearing in mind that was the minimum age needed to have voted in 75), it is undoubtedly the case that many of those voted to join the EEC.

Far from not accepting democracy, they have righted a wrong.

 

[GT49er]

Sounds like it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

Good spots - but please don't introduce facts into this thread! Mind you, it was only David Cameron saying it, and we all know he was wrong about everything, don't we? He probably even believed that the EU would agree to reforms!

 

[GT49er]

Another one for you [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION]

I wasn't discussing Turkey joining the EU. Don't know why you can't understand that, it's extremely simple. I could make a snide remark about remainers and not understanding, but I won't.

 

[cunning fergus]

No. You are. One of the weasel-word narratives at the time was that Turkey was now 'set to join the EU', which about 99% of the population would, especially given the context, take to mean that it was about to. As in "The Syrian regime is set to take over Aleppo". As the Brexit-spinners intended.

A couple of NSC's most adamant Brexiteers, possibly including you, then claimed that by screaming "Turkey is set to join the EU", Leave campaigners actually meant that "Turkey might one day manage to progress its snail-like application process beyond the velocity that has so far seen it take 30 years to get nowhere very far".

You're still doing it.

Gently moving the goalposts? You're digging them up and setting them on fire. Turkey was a classic Brexit scare tactic aimed at frightening enough people into thinking that alien immigrants were about to swamp us.

Mainstream British politicians of whatever flavour have long been advocating Turkey's membership of the EU, here is Miliband in 2012 confirming how Labour were "working tirelessly" to achieve it.

http://ceftus.org/2012/07/04/message-from-ed-miliband/

This despite knowing that the membership of Turkey would be deeply unpopular to Labour's core working class voters, the people they purport to represent.

But both Labour and the Tories don't, as both looked the other way when thousands of Ford workers in the UK were made redundant when work moved to Turkey in a new factory paid for with UK taxpayers money.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1159026.ece

Nothing short of a national f@cking disgrace, and still people want to whine on about how great it is being in the EU.

I bet those ex Ford workers and their families in Southampton voted leave............whilst the soft and hard Tories voted remain.

Quite.