[Politics] Brexit

[ThePompousPaladin]

Of course you can. The Referendum was merely advisory. Now that we have a clearer idea of what a post-Brexit world might look like, we're all in a better position to assess things. At some stage someone sensible will hopefully say "I know we had a Referendum, but Brexit is clearly going to be an economic and political disaster. Let's re-evaluate." If that happened the whole world could breathe a sigh of relief and we could get back to doing the things that are being sacrificed in this crazy Brexit project (like properly funding the NHS, for example).

I'm not happy with the precedent that would create or for that matter the trouble and divisions it would cause.

A lot of people have voiced their dissatisfaction, using the system. To brush them and their opinions under the carpet is wrong and potentially very dangerous, as said if we vote again, i'd change my vote to leave.

 

[studio150]

So predictable, bore off

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Just let the leaders of the leave vote sort it out!!!!


Oh.

There aren't any 'leaders of the Leave vote.' That job never existed. There were leaders of the Leave campaign but that is not the same thing. It wasn't an election.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's very similar in the Aviation industry - no-one I know in the industry voted Leave, but everyone is having to pick up the pieces and make it work. It's going to be hugely challenging, and as soon as we trigger Article 50 we hand all the negotiating cards to the other side. The rest of the EU can then just sit on their hands, and in two years time we won't be able to fly from the UK to the 27 countries in the EU. Highly unlikely, of course, but I don't understand why we're putting ourselves in this position.

I don't really agree with any of your post. Firstly, we all live under one system. Whether you know people who voted Leave is neither here nor there. We have been members of the EU for a large part of my life and I never made the same point as you regarding my acceptance of this fact.
Triggering Article 50 does not hand the initiative to the other side. Why do you think it does ? As to your point about flight access to other countries, that will be negotiated and reciprocal.
You do rather give the impression of never having been involved in any negotiations. It seems bizarre to me that you would declare the outcome of a two year negotiating period despite having no civil service experience (I stand corrected if that is untrue but I am surmising that to be the case basis your post) and not having been briefed on the negotiation position of either the U.K. or the EU.
I really can't quite comprehend how you can be so sure in your negative outlook.

 

[GT49er]

Just dumbing it down for the leavers

When attempting a witty or clever response, dumbing it down is rarely the best way to go about it.........................................in a worst case scenario it can appear a little, well, err....dumb.

 

[GT49er]

The rest of the EU can then just sit on their hands, and in two years time we won't be able to fly from the UK to the 27 countries in the EU.

Great! We won't need the third runway at Heathrow then.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes, I suppose you're right. I would be much happier if I could ignore the hopes and horizons of the family members following behind me. And thanks for telling me that their ambitions are nowhere nearly as important as they think they are - I'll pass on the information.

I appreciate your link to the report that 70 per cent of the public apparently want controls on EU immigration but as the same survey showed that a considerably larger proportion wants to remain a part of the single market it really doesn't tell us a great deal.

Why do you think the hopes and aspirations of your family members are dashed ? I have lived abroad three times in countries that are not in political union with the U.K. There were zero problems with doing so. There are enormous numbers of British expats around the world. I sincerely hope you aren't telling anyone their horizons have become narrower because I cannot work out how that could be the case.

 

[portslade seagull]

Haven't you got any homework?

 

[Soulman]

When attempting a witty or clever response, dumbing it down is rarely the best way to go about it.........................................in a worst case scenario it can appear a little, well, err....dumb.

Hmm, i suppose it is better than being classed as thick..... "dumbing it down for the leavers", i take it we can not understand and need it simplified.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why do you think the hopes and aspirations of your family members are dashed ? I have lived abroad three times in countries that are not in political union with the U.K. There were zero problems with doing so. There are enormous numbers of British expats around the world. I sincerely hope you aren't telling anyone their horizons have become narrower because I cannot work out how that could be the case.

I know a few people over here which might be affected depending on which terms for living and working abroad are agreed. But broadly speaking if "excessive" paperwork is required by a company for British workers then they will not be as attractive for small businesses and start-ups as EU citizens will be.

I've said before a UK passport will clearly and obviously be of less value, than say an Irish passport, if the EU freedoms bit is removed from it. It doesn't take much to understand where Lincoln Imp is coming from.

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't really agree with any of your post. Firstly, we all live under one system. Whether you know people who voted Leave is neither here nor there. We have been members of the EU for a large part of my life and I never made the same point as you regarding my acceptance of this fact.
Triggering Article 50 does not hand the initiative to the other side. Why do you think it does ? As to your point about flight access to other countries, that will be negotiated and reciprocal.
You do rather give the impression of never having been involved in any negotiations. It seems bizarre to me that you would declare the outcome of a two year negotiating period despite having no civil service experience (I stand corrected if that is untrue but I am surmising that to be the case basis your post) and not having been briefed on the negotiation position of either the U.K. or the EU.
I really can't quite comprehend how you can be so sure in your negative outlook.

You got that bit right.

He did not declare the outcome of negotiations, he said what the EU could do, and then admits it is highly unlikely.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I know a few people over here which might be affected depending on which terms for living and working abroad are agreed. But broadly speaking if "excessive" paperwork is required by a company for British workers then they will not be as attractive for small businesses and start-ups as EU citizens will be.

I've said before a UK passport will clearly and obviously be of less value if the EU freedoms bit is removed from it.

Define 'excessive'. Very easy process (all online into the latter years) in my stints abroad. Really not difficult. It also means the host country knows who is resident which makes DBS ( criminal record) checks a better system and allows for public planning of essential services.

 

[studio150]

Haven't you got any homework?

To quote some else 'So predictable, bore off'

 

[Baldseagull]

Why do you think the hopes and aspirations of your family members are dashed ? I have lived abroad three times in countries that are not in political union with the U.K. There were zero problems with doing so. There are enormous numbers of British expats around the world. I sincerely hope you aren't telling anyone their horizons have become narrower because I cannot work out how that could be the case.

There is quite a bit you can't work out isn't there?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Define 'excessive'. Very easy process (all online into the latter years) in my stints abroad. Really not difficult. It also means the host country knows who is resident which makes DBS ( criminal record) checks a better system and allows for public planning of essential services.

The small coffee shop I use and which currently employs a British lad who came over to primarily brush up on his the language will probably deem any paperwork they will have to undertake a pain; they've indicated as such. And a start-up I'm friendly with have said similar. I guess it's up to each business to decide if they can be arsed with any extra burden or not. An "easy process" is still an extra process though. If you are confronted with a few hoops to jump through, or none at all, I can understand why a small business will take the latter.

Can you really not see why this might deter some employers?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The stuff you do about the jam is much funnier.

really
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Why do you think the hopes and aspirations of your family members are dashed ? I have lived abroad three times in countries that are not in political union with the U.K. There were zero problems with doing so. There are enormous numbers of British expats around the world. I sincerely hope you aren't telling anyone their horizons have become narrower because I cannot work out how that could be the case.

OK. I've touched this before but take one example. One of my children and spouse. Intending to transfer part of existing business to Holland and run it from there whilst opening new business and maintaining existing operation in London. Main residency shifted to Amsterdam. Child planned; certain welfare requirements can be predicted. All this can be achieved but with (probably; we don't know yet) greater complexity and with the loss of the sense of shared citizenship that exists at the moment. I have a EU-national daughter in law who set up her business in London with a level of simplicity that certainly wasn't achieved by my own daughter who did the same, in a similar line of business, in a non-EU country. I mention in passing that since July my great niece has been running up against funding issues in respect of a two-centre modern language university course, as a direct result of Brexit. These are tangible examples. There are intangible ones resulting from the future loss of European-wide citizenship for my children's children which I guess large numbers of Leave voters just aren't interested in. It's not important to them. I appreciate that.

 

[Jim in the West]

The

I don't really agree with any of your post. Firstly, we all live under one system. Whether you know people who voted Leave is neither here nor there. We have been members of the EU for a large part of my life and I never made the same point as you regarding my acceptance of this fact.
Triggering Article 50 does not hand the initiative to the other side. Why do you think it does ? As to your point about flight access to other countries, that will be negotiated and reciprocal.
You do rather give the impression of never having been involved in any negotiations. It seems bizarre to me that you would declare the outcome of a two year negotiating period despite having no civil service experience (I stand corrected if that is untrue but I am surmising that to be the case basis your post) and not having been briefed on the negotiation position of either the U.K. or the EU.
I really can't quite comprehend how you can be so sure in your negative outlook.

I am not a civil servant, but I've negotiated loads of contracts over the years. The point I'm making is as follows:

At the moment we are part of the EU, and therefore UK airlines can fly to and from other EU countries, and within other EU countries. If we are not in the EU, then UK airlines would have no right to fly to/from/within the EU, unless we had negotiated a replacement deal. As soon as Article 50 is triggered we have two years to try to conclude such a deal (which, by the way, needs to be agreed by 27 national governments and a whole range of regional assemblies). There is little incentive for other EU countries to negotiate- and even if several really wanted to, a few recalcitrant countries could just scupper the whole thing. That's why it hands the initiative to the other side. And this is only aviation. There are hundreds and hundreds - no, thousands - of other agreements that need to be negotiated, and agreed by all 27 EU countries. That's why some commentators have estimated we need at least another 30,000 civil servants. And even if we have them, the EU need to dedicate similar resources on their side.

If you have a solution to this, by all means post it on here - but, more helpfully, get in touch with the UK government because they definitely don't.

 

[portslade seagull]

To quote some else 'So predictable, bore off'

Get mummy to tuck you in as it must be bedtime now, night night

 

[GT49er]

The

I am not a civil servant.............

Well, thank f**k for that anyway!





Let's just get this straight. At this moment UK - and loads of other - airlines fly all over the world, to destinations inside and outside the EU. It's called meeting a commercial demand. And you seriously expect us to believe that civil aviation within the EU will cease once we finally extricate ourselves from the Euroshambles? Even Project Fear didn't come out with anything that preposterous. Probably in a rare lucid moment they realised it would look silly and no-one would fall for it anyway.