[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

I think so too. Pain in the arse as far as I'm concerned, there are far more important things to deal with at present, such as Russia taking the piss left, right and centre.

Equally I am sure you will agree that there should be parliamentary scrutiny of the terms negotiated, otherwise it could be just the likes of Fox or Davies determining their interpretation of a democratic vote.

Adds more uncertainty and more distraction plus gives the die hard remoaners false hope.

Completely agree on the parliamentary scrutiny although this process shouldn't be used as an excuse to reverse or water down the referendum result.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

A purely ADVISORY referendum, that returned a far from conclusive response.

Imagine if the referendum was remain. Would it have been a purely ADVISORY referendum in that case?

 

[Grombleton]

A purely ADVISORY referendum.

That's the bit that I think many (not just one here I must add, but in the wider society) have possibly forgotten - that our say was purely advisory and in reality it doesn't hold that much sway. Yes yes I know the whole 'they said they'd respect the wishes of the people' and all that but I don't trust the government as far as I could throw them, so to actually expect them to follow through with it is a tad naive.

Imagine if the referendum was remain. Would it have been a purely ADVISORY referendum in that case?

Well yeah it would be - it was stated and known beforehand that it was advisory, regardless of the outcome.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Which is why a majority will vote to trigger article 50, assuming it even gets to a vote. Seems a rather vague judgment expect it will be overturned.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Labour will be whipped to vote against 100%.

LDs/Scots Nats naturally will vote against, plus Ms Lucas. It could well come down to Tory MP's like Ken Clarke and others who will have to decide between their Party and their Country. They may be given space to do so, if the Government thinks they have enough support from DUP and Welsh Nationalists and any others. Maybe time for Sinn Fein to vote...

 

[alfredmizen]

I think so too. Pain in the arse as far as I'm concerned, there are far more important things to deal with at present, such as Russia taking the piss left, right and centre.

Equally I am sure you will agree that there should be parliamentary scrutiny of the terms negotiated, otherwise it could be just the likes of Fox or Davies determining their interpretation of a democratic vote.

so the "we elect mp's to make these decisions for us " argument is only valid if the vote goes your way, yes ?

 

[alfredmizen]

A purely ADVISORY referendum, that returned a far from conclusive response.

Ye gods , you must be puce with embarrassment posting crap like this.

 

[HH Brighton]

Its a complete shambles. This article suggests the government might have to go the 'European High Court' Luxembourg to get this overturned. Surely we don't need European courts making decisions for us do we? We've got our country back now we can make our own rulings....LOL !!!!
https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-eu-court-european-justice-7395066

 

[larus]

Maybe I'm missing something here. So Remainers think it's sensible for Parliament to debate and vote on triggering Article 50, but we won't know what the outcome of the negotiations are until the end of the 2 year period.

So what the f*ck are they going to vote on?
Whether we can trigger article 50 or the negotiating strategy of the government and thereby announce to the EU what our 'Red Lines' are? How the hell does that aid us in negotiations? Here you are EU, this is our strategy.

Christ, words fail me. If the other side doesn't know your real aims, they don't know what to 'trade' on.

 

[alfredmizen]

There's a pause and an escape hatch here. Will the EU and the UK see this opportunity though? Or are they too proud? The EU does need change and can change for the better. It can also change to UKs advantage and betterment. If I was May I'd jump on the first plan to Brussels and start working on something. A reworked EU can work for the benefit of the UK and the EU. Get proper change and put this to the people.

I could live with that, you'd never make a broker though , jumping on a plane and going straight to them ?? Let them come to us , talk about giving away your hand !!

 

[Danny-Boy]

The West German government specifically outlawed the use of referenda/plebiscites when formed after WW2 following the cynical use of them by the Nazi regime.

The trouble with them is they only provide a snapshot view of the country at one specific time, as do General Elections but these are held at intervals. You can't say a referendum can just change the whole political direction of a country for decades to come, if events following that decision prove that it was based on a faulty understanding of what the country was asked to vote on.

 

[larus]

There's a pause and an escape hatch here. Will the EU and the UK see this opportunity though? Or are they too proud? The EU does need change and can change for the better. It can also change to UKs advantage and betterment. If I was May I'd jump on the first plan to Brussels and start working on something. A reworked EU can work for the benefit of the UK and the EU. Get proper change and put this to the people.

Wow, your delusion astounds me. I honestly can't believe that you post crap like this. The EU has a plan is a single state. That's it. Step-by-step.
Single Currency.
Army.
Centralised Tax and Spend.
Etc.

There is no rolling back, but don't fear, because once the banking systems of nation states start to collapse, the EU will implode.

 

[Albumen]

Maybe I'm missing something here. So Remainers think it's sensible for Parliament to debate and vote on triggering Article 50, but we won't know what the outcome of the negotiations is until the end of the 2 year period.

So what the f*ck are they going to vote on?
Whether we can trigger article 50 or the negotiating strategy of the government and thereby announce to the EU what our 'Red Lines' are? How the hell does that aid us in negotiations? Here you are EU, this is our strategy.

Christ, words fail me. If the other side doesn't know your real aims, they don't know what to 'trade' on.

Aims? The Tories ****ed up the country by letting the idiots vote, and now they have no idea how to fix it. Their '"let's just see what happens' really wasnt going to work. Luckily the people have intervened
And hopefully now through the Supreme Court we can secure parliamentary debate until everyone flatlines into submission and stays in the EU.

 

[Simster]

Ye gods , you must be puce with embarrassment posting crap like this.

Legally, he's right. And for the reason [MENTION=13666]Danny-Boy[/MENTION] outlines, it is an insane situation where a referendum can dictate out future for decades to come. Let's not forget, this referendum only happened because of Cameron's selfishness. If people want out of the EU, it should be done through parliamentary procedure not a plebiscite.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Labour will be whipped to vote against 100%.

LDs/Scots Nats naturally will vote against, plus Ms Lucas. It could well come down to Tory MP's like Ken Clarke and others who will have to decide between their Party and their Country. They may be given space to do so, if the Government thinks they have enough support from DUP and Welsh Nationalists and any others. Maybe time for Sinn Fein to vote...

I'm not sure Labour could be 100% whipped on anything ... Kate Hoey? Also Two Labour remain MP's on BBC have already said they would vote to trigger article 50 respecting the democratic will of the majority blah blah, expect many more would follow suit.

 

[alfredmizen]

Legally, he's right. And for the reason [MENTION=13666]Danny-Boy[/MENTION] outlines, it is an insane situation where a referendum can dictate out future for decades to come. Let's not forget, this referendum only happened because of Cameron's selfishness. If people want out of the EU, it should be done through parliamentary procedure not a plebiscite.

This referendum happened because people wanted it , labour promised it and then reneged , the tories promised it and didnt , neither side would have promised it if there wasn't an appetite for it , and the vote would have gone the other way if Cameron had come back with anything meaningful.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You miss understand the role of parliament.

So you are saying that it IS the role of parliament to do exactly what constituents want? How would this work? Would we have loads of opinion polls and instruct MPs to just rubber stamp the results?

Blimey. This could see parliament banning Frenchmen, shooting paedophiles and cutting income tax. Are you sure you aren't the one who is misunderstanding the role of parliament?

 

[alfredmizen]

Aims? The Tories ****ed up the country by letting the idiots vote, and now they have no idea how to fix it. Their '"let's just see what happens' really wasnt going to work. Luckily the people have intervened
And hopefully now through the Supreme Court we can secure parliamentary debate until everyone flatlines into submission and stays in the EU.

Really ?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

And hopefully now through the Supreme Court we can secure parliamentary debate until everyone flatlines into submission and stays in the EU.

Your cross words for the Tories may well be founded in truth. However you give your true feelings away in your support for dictatorship.

 

[vegster]

Of course a struggling UK economy, laid low by a weak £, is manna to exporters. Say, arms dealers, for example.

I'm sure Dr Fox would do nothing to sully his good name in that way, I'm sure he has learned valuable lessons from his previous demise ? just as he has learned to be much more attentive to the scrutiny of his expenses.

 

[vegster]

Wow, your delusion astounds me. I honestly can't believe that you post crap like this. The EU has a plan is a single state. That's it. Step-by-step.
Single Currency.
Army.
Centralised Tax and Spend.
Etc.

There is no rolling back, but don't fear, because once the banking systems of nation states start to collapse, the EU will implode.

Now who is posting crap ?