[Politics] Brexit - Deal we have or Rejoin CU/SM

[Thunder Bolt]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

We have many vacancies, like bus drivers, cafes, restaurants postmen (8 empty rounds just in Newhaven) care workers, agricultural workers etc

Wages haven't risen since we left so that is a fallacy.

A trade deal with India involves Britain giving out many visas.

India demands more visas for nurses and care workers as price for free trade deal

Indian negotiators are understood to be holding out for concessions as they enter the 13th round of talks

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Machiavelli]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

I've had a c30% pay cut so, according to your impeccable logic, we've got to blame Brexit for that. I'm aware that there are other factors behind it but you, quite apparently, are not.

 

[Hamilton]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

There's really very little reason getting into debate with posters like you, but I'll bite.

The pay rises received by many are either enforced through industrial action or due to a shortage of labour, which while driving up wages in some sectors is doing nothing to address inflation or productivity. As a result, our economy is tanking. Expect to see more recessionary pressures in Q3/4 of this year.

As to the one million illegal immigrants landing on the shores of Italy, Spain, and GREECE, this is caused by war, economics and climate change. The people will be arriving on the shores of Europe (and therefore the UK), regardless of membership of the EU. And the red tape you refer to from Brussels (tape that we were involved in creating through the democratic processes in place when we had MEPs), do you think that tape has disappeared? Do you think we now trade goods with the EU on our terms now? We still adhere to EU regulations when trading with the EU, but we've just created more work for ourselves and partners in the EU who want to trade with us, and that drives up costs.

As to other trade deals, there have been none of note, and as the US told us, there was never going to be.

By all means keep trotting out the 'remoaner' language. It's boring, but predictable.

What we need to do now that we're out is think practically and logically. We need to cast aside the idea that we are some powerhouse and ask how we can start to strengthen the economy. Entering a customs union with our biggest trading neighbour to reduce costs would make sense. Loosening rules on immigration to attract the skills we need from the EU makes sense. Finding ways to reduce the tax burden on industries that are valuable like R&D, Technology, Science, Clean Energy solutions etc. makes sense. Investing in addressing the causes of immigration rather than stopping boats, makes sense.

As to your £16billion pound figure, it sounds like a bargain if you look at what Bloomberg (those arch left wingers!) think it is costing the UK.

Brexit is Costing the UK £100 Billion a Year in Lost Output

Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.

www.bloomberg.com

As I say, no point in debating with people like you. I doubt you'll ever listen to a reason. It's easier for you just to say that I hate this country which I love.

 

[AK74]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

GREECE.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

To be fair, I think this is the best researched, most factual and persuasive case that I have seen made for Brexit since it actually started 'being done' and became blindingly obvious what was 'being done' three years ago. Not a great achievement given the level of case presented before Brexit, but I think it should be recognised

And I never realised that grease would be such a problem

 

[Lever]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

Have another go at explaining the advantages of Brexit; I am not sure how this monumental act of self harm has made people in this country better off!

The rest of what you have written is 'project fear' in reverse, surely.....

In 2016, we were promised everything would be so much better if we left the EU and now the dwindling number of Brexit faithful have morphed the argument into 'a return would make matters so much worse....'. As if......

While you're sorting out your thinking about Brexit, give yourself a laugh with a bit of black humour... you seem a bit over intense....

 

[Wokeworrier]

There's really very little reason getting into debate with posters like you, but I'll bite.

The pay rises received by many are either enforced through industrial action or due to a shortage of labour, which while driving up wages in some sectors is doing nothing to address inflation or productivity. As a result, our economy is tanking. Expect to see more recessionary pressures in Q3/4 of this year.

As to the one million illegal immigrants landing on the shores of Italy, Spain, and GREECE, this is caused by war, economics and climate change. The people will be arriving on the shores of Europe (and therefore the UK), regardless of membership of the EU. And the red tape you refer to from Brussels (tape that we were involved in creating through the democratic processes in place when we had MEPs), do you think that tape has disappeared? Do you think we now trade goods with the EU on our terms now? We still adhere to EU regulations when trading with the EU, but we've just created more work for ourselves and partners in the EU who want to trade with us, and that drives up costs.

As to other trade deals, there have been none of note, and as the US told us, there was never going to be.

By all means keep trotting out the 'remoaner' language. It's boring, but predictable.

What we need to do now that we're out is think practically and logically. We need to cast aside the idea that we are some powerhouse and ask how we can start to strengthen the economy. Entering a customs union with our biggest trading neighbour to reduce costs would make sense. Loosening rules on immigration to attract the skills we need from the EU makes sense. Finding ways to reduce the tax burden on industries that are valuable like R&D, Technology, Science, Clean Energy solutions etc. makes sense. Investing in addressing the causes of immigration rather than stopping boats, makes sense.

As to your £16billion pound figure, it sounds like a bargain if you look at what Bloomberg (those arch left wingers!) think it is costing the UK.

Brexit is Costing the UK £100 Billion a Year in Lost Output

Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.

www.bloomberg.com

As I say, no point in debating with people like you. I doubt you'll ever listen to a reason. It's easier for you just to say that I hate this country which I love.

Although it's pleasing to see you are one of the very few on here that has the honesty to acknowledge the ending of the (mainly Eastern european) EU mass immigration labour supply has helped boost wages during a crippling cost of living crisis ( most welcome) I struggle to see the relevance of your other points.

Firstly, productivity has been poor in the UK for a very long time despite EU membership and the only people claiming UK inflation is significantly impacted by paying public sector workers/the lower paid in the private sector a better wage are (amusingly) some remaniac jihadis trying to blame our inflation levels on Brexit, big business and quite a few Tories and their mates in the press!

Also If you don't hate this country can you please stop peddling the lie, oft repeated by serial pinocchio @WATFORD zero that our economy is 'tanking'. Over recent months Germany has been in recession. The Eurozone has been in recession, the Netherlands has just gone into recession meanwhile UK plc has seen growth...

 

[WATFORD zero]

Although it's pleasing to see you are one of the very few on here that has the honesty

To still recognise the account he has posted under for over 30 years, still take accountability for everything he has ever said, and not run away and try and pretend he's someone else completely when his history becomes too embarrassing, time and time again ?

He's certainly that honest

 

[chickens]

Although it's pleasing to see you are one of the very few on here that has the honesty to acknowledge the ending of the (mainly Eastern european) EU mass immigration labour supply has helped boost wages during a crippling cost of living crisis ( most welcome) I struggle to see the relevance of your other points.

Firstly, productivity has been poor in the UK for a very long time despite EU membership and the only people claiming UK inflation is significantly impacted by paying public sector workers/the lower paid in the private sector a better wage are (amusingly) some remaniac jihadis trying to blame our inflation levels on Brexit, big business and quite a few Tories and their mates in the press!

Also If you don't hate this country can you please stop peddling the lie, oft repeated by serial pinocchio @WATFORD zero that our economy is 'tanking'. Over recent months Germany has been in recession. The Eurozone has been in recession, the Netherlands has just gone into recession meanwhile UK plc has seen growth...

Growth is no use if 98% of the population aren’t experiencing any benefit. The “wage rises” you speak of are lower than inflation, and as such in real terms are further pay cuts, to go with the pay cuts people have had every year for over a decade in most cases.

People who are spending their mental energy working out how they’re going to make ends meet week to week are obviously going to be distracted and less productive than people who are secure in their finances.

If you think our current economy is some kind of success story then walk around a few town centres is all I can say. Recession is a technical term meaning three consecutive months where the overall size of the economy shrank. You don’t need to be in technical recession to have an awful economy.

For example, you can have a really dreadful economy if you have growth, but it’s all going to Jeff Bezos in his penis-shaped spacecraft.

To have growth in the economy that the country is sharing in is a good thing. To have growth that is just sucked out of our economy and spent elsewhere does not help Britain at all.

 

[nicko31]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

Ripping up the trade deals made sounds like a great idea, more harm than good so far.

16b quid….even if true sounds a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of being the only country in the history of the world that has imposed trade sanctions on itself, not to mention the cost of the Vote Leave cabal’s general incompetence.

Think we blew that alone on Sunak’s crazy and unchecked bounce back loans.

Last check we’re now 31st in the world on a GDP per capita basis. Even Farage admits Brexit has failed

 

[ShandyH]

Guardian readers only. Dear god. You need to read more.

 

[Greenbag50]

Guardian readers only. Dear god. You need to read more.

Yup; not allowed other opinions. All other opinions are the wrong opinions.

 

[nicko31]

Although it's pleasing to see you are one of the very few on here that has the honesty to acknowledge the ending of the (mainly Eastern european) EU mass immigration labour supply has helped boost wages during a crippling cost of living crisis ( most welcome) I struggle to see the relevance of your other points.

Firstly, productivity has been poor in the UK for a very long time despite EU membership and the only people claiming UK inflation is significantly impacted by paying public sector workers/the lower paid in the private sector a better wage are (amusingly) some remaniac jihadis trying to blame our inflation levels on Brexit, big business and quite a few Tories and their mates in the press!

Also If you don't hate this country can you please stop peddling the lie, oft repeated by serial pinocchio @WATFORD zero that our economy is 'tanking'. Over recent months Germany has been in recession. The Eurozone has been in recession, the Netherlands has just gone into recession meanwhile UK plc has seen growth...

The boom in private medical is just staving off recession. You must be delighted

 

[Mental Lental]

Yup; not allowed other opinions. All other opinions are the wrong opinions.

You seem to be confusing your right to express an opinion with a right to have that opinion respected. That's not how it works. If you spout hogwash on here you're gonna get called out for it. "Brexit is good" is one of those obviously bobbins opinions that's right up there with "the world is flat" and "the Nazis weren't really that bad were they?" You can't come out with crap like that and then expect people to just nod their heads and say "that's an interesting opinion I never thought of it that way before".

Cos it's bollox.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

Is this for real?

 

[Lever]

Guardian readers only. Dear god. You need to read more.

I am interested to learn what you think would be 'widely read' in this case and why you think people who have a different view from you only read the Guardian.

Presumably you 'read more', so where do you get your 'more rounded' understanding? Genuine question....

 

[A1X]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

Given your hatred of the idea of EU workers coming back and desire to keep the paltry trade deals we’ve got post-2021, can I make a bold assumption that you’re not a farmer? Only they’re furious.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yup; not allowed other opinions. All other opinions are the wrong opinions.

Your opinion isn't wrong. Like the people that are of the opinion that the Earth is flat, 9/11 was a conspiracy, vaccines are for putting microchips into people and chemtrails control populations. They are all opinions and all 'allowed' but just like yours, they aren't valid.

valid
/ˈvalɪd/

adjective
(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.

Unless, of course, you have evidence to the contrary

 

[A1X]

Yup; not allowed other opinions. All other opinions are the wrong opinions.

One of the great things about the internet is it’s given everyone a chance to voice their opinions freely. One of the worst things about the internet is it’s given the impression that all opinions are equally valid.

 

[Hamilton]

Although it's pleasing to see you are one of the very few on here that has the honesty to acknowledge the ending of the (mainly Eastern european) EU mass immigration labour supply has helped boost wages during a crippling cost of living crisis ( most welcome) I struggle to see the relevance of your other points.

Firstly, productivity has been poor in the UK for a very long time despite EU membership and the only people claiming UK inflation is significantly impacted by paying public sector workers/the lower paid in the private sector a better wage are (amusingly) some remaniac jihadis trying to blame our inflation levels on Brexit, big business and quite a few Tories and their mates in the press!

Also If you don't hate this country can you please stop peddling the lie, oft repeated by serial pinocchio @WATFORD zero that our economy is 'tanking'. Over recent months Germany has been in recession. The Eurozone has been in recession, the Netherlands has just gone into recession meanwhile UK plc has seen growth...

Hello JCFG.

You’ve completely misrepresented my post. But hey, that’s what your modus operandi is. You hoodwink people.