[Politics] Brexit - Deal we have or Rejoin CU/SM

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We can see that Labour are hopefully likely to win the next election, what I think they should do is put a policy of rejoining the CU/SM. But the thing is, I still think too many people feel like it is still beneficial to be out of it. Crazy really. So this would likely keep the Tories in who would no doubt counter it. They should get in then be radical and just go for it. EU will make us join the Euro though, simple as that.

They may well do now, but that was never on the cards before we left.

Another Brexit bonus. Yay.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

He needs to get elected. That means not frightening the hoards of f***ing IDIOTS who still think Brexit is brilliant and that sending migrants to f***ing RWANDA will solve something. Anything.

As we have seen in the last 13 years, the measure of a government is what they do, not what they claim they will do.

Ironically the only PM in the last 13 years who has delivered is Johnson. He promised to do Brexit without any plan or deal and he did it. I think he may have promised other stuff about how this would bring instant benefits, and that, but I don't remember the details so it can't have been important.

If that's the sort of madcap politics you like, vote for Farage. He has oodles of certainty and plans.

My point is pick a fight you can win - there's plenty of them - which will appeal to some of the voting base. No one wants to swim with turds, take that fight to Sunak or whatever else some overpaid think tank comes up with. Personal view is that doing nothing isn't the master strategy he thinks it is He will be perceived - rightly or wrongly - as weak.

 

[BN41Albion]

Surely the 23 who voted carry on are taking the piss... surely...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My point is pick a fight you can win - there's plenty of them - which will appeal to some of the voting base. No one wants to swim with turds, take that fight to Sunak or whatever else some overpaid think tank comes up with. Personal view is that doing nothing isn't the master strategy he thinks it is He will be perceived - rightly or wrongly - as weak.

Yes, it is a tough ask. Declare a removal of some of the hard fought bollocks won for gammon, or sit on the powder, keeping it dry, and be accused of being weak by the centre left to far left, desperate for some good old democratic socialism.

I, personally, and as a labour member am content to trust and wait.

I'm not bovvered if the Mail demands policy detail now. The Mail can f*** off

 

[ManOfSussex]

Surely the 23 who voted carry on are taking the piss... surely...

There's still plenty of Wokeworrier/JCFG/PPF types about who think it's great.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Yes, it is a tough ask. Declare a removal of some of the hard fought bollocks won for gammon, or sit on the powder, keeping it dry, and be accused of being weak by the centre left to far left, desperate for some good old democratic socialism.

I, personally, and as a labour member am content to trust and wait.

I'm not bovvered if the Mail demands policy detail now. The Mail can f*** off

Unfortunately, the next election will be decided by Dave in Swindon - or other swing voting seats - I'm getting Jeremy Wright whether I want him or not and our opinion probably isn't worth much. I quite like Starmer and think his wooden persona hides a bloke who would be far more electable if he let his guard down. Blair promised education, education, education and introduced tuition fees. Whatever Starmer comes up can be bollox as long as its believable. I really do think he needs to do something though. In my lifetime, Labour have had to win the election. Major in 92 a case in point that somehow they got 4 more years. This feels similar.

 

[Gwylan]

I do not disagree. My point was more a challenge to @Gwylan 's assertion the EU would have you back 'in a blink of an eye'. I do not think this is the case.

Well, it clearly wouldn't literally be in the blink of an eye because there's a long accession process. But, I can't see many major objections: as Baldseagull points out, France and Germany would welcome someone to share the financial load and the other countries would welcome a country big enough to challenge the French/German hegemony.

I'm sure there'd also be a certain amount of schadenfreude in witnessing the UK being forced to adopt the Euro - although they may still get away without Schengen.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well, it clearly wouldn't literally be in the blink of an eye because there's a long accession process. But, I can't see many major objections: as Baldseagull points out, France and Germany would welcome someone to share the financial load and the other countries would welcome a country big enough to challenge the French/German hegemony.

I'm sure there'd also be a certain amount of schadenfreude in witnessing the UK being forced to adopt the Euro - although they may still get away without Schengen.

Given you are a Brexiteer what are your current thoughts on rejoining? Is this something you want?

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

They may well do now, but that was never on the cards before we left.

Another Brexit bonus. Yay.

Exactly my point.

 

[Gwylan]

Given you are a Brexiteer what are your current thoughts on rejoining? Is this something you want?

Yes, I said at the time of the vote that it was madness to leave the SM/CU, we should have stayed in one or the other (or both) and we shouldn't have left EFTA. Since then, everything has been a complete omnishambles. I wasn't a hard-core Brexiteer, I wavered a bit on the final decision and everything I've seen since suggests that I got it wrong

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Unfortunately, the next election will be decided by Dave in Swindon - or other swing voting seats - I'm getting Jeremy Wright whether I want him or not and our opinion probably isn't worth much. I quite like Starmer and think his wooden persona hides a bloke who would be far more electable if he let his guard down. Blair promised education, education, education and introduced tuition fees. Whatever Starmer comes up can be bollox as long as its believable. I really do think he needs to do something though. In my lifetime, Labour have had to win the election. Major in 92 a case in point that somehow they got 4 more years. This feels similar.

Blair promised ' education, education, education ' because he intended to send as many kids as possible into higher education ( and conveniently reduce unemployment figures at the same time ) He achieved this by ' dumbing down ' the examination standards, year after year and producing a generation of kids, who all thought they were geniuses.
Opposition parties never win power. Governments lose power through their own failings. Starmer doesn't need to do anything. This appalling government have successfully fckd themselves over so many times, there is no coming back.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

As for Brexit......phew......bugger me......what a monumental catastrophe......Probably the worst decision in our history. I didn't vote on the day but my sympathies were with coming out. Reason....I have always disliked the way the Union was heading. Too large, too unwieldy and too many smaller countries relying on the contributions of the Big Boys. We needed a Northern European Alliance. UK, France, Germany and the Benelux countries. That would have been strong enough to compete with the whole world. Too late now. We have allowed this bureaucratic behemoth to develop.
As we are still tied to the EU with so many things and I have no evidence that there is a concerted will amongst government to implement the changes that Brexit could have offered, its a no brainer. Governments need courage and this one has been spineless. Their only agenda is revenue through ever increasing direct and indirect taxation and screwing business to the floor.
We may as well rejoin the SM/CU as we are all going to be gone soon anyway. The apocalypse is coming. Scorching temperatures, Rising water levels. The only ones who don't seem bothered are mortgage companies. Still lending on London and beachside properties. Don't they realise they are going to be under water. Oh well....money talks.

 

[Machiavelli]

He needs to get elected. That means not frightening the hoards of f***ing IDIOTS who still think Brexit is brilliant and that sending migrants to f***ing RWANDA will solve something. Anything.

As we have seen in the last 13 years, the measure of a government is what they do, not what they claim they will do.

Ironically the only PM in the last 13 years who has delivered is Johnson. He promised to do Brexit without any plan or deal and he did it. I think he may have promised other stuff about how this would bring instant benefits, and that, but I don't remember the details so it can't have been important.

If that's the sort of madcap politics you like, vote for Farage. He has oodles of certainty and plans.

Cameron too. He delivered austerity (which is still ongoing) and stuck to his guarantee of 2013 in offering the public an IN/OUT referendum.
On the other side, Cameron claimed that they'd be 'the greenest government ever' (once in power, the message became 'cut the green crap'), while Johnson insisted on 'levelling-up' and, predictably, all we've had is levelling-down.

 

[Machiavelli]

My point is pick a fight you can win - there's plenty of them - which will appeal to some of the voting base. No one wants to swim with turds, take that fight to Sunak or whatever else some overpaid think tank comes up with. Personal view is that doing nothing isn't the master strategy he thinks it is He will be perceived - rightly or wrongly - as weak.

Agreed. We're in the mire and, if you're in the mire, doing nothing just keeps you in the mire, whatever the extremists of the centre tell you.

 

[WATFORD zero]

As for Brexit......phew......bugger me......what a monumental catastrophe......Probably the worst decision in our history. I didn't vote on the day but my sympathies were with coming out. Reason....I have always disliked the way the Union was heading. Too large, too unwieldy and too many smaller countries relying on the contributions of the Big Boys. We needed a Northern European Alliance. UK, France, Germany and the Benelux countries. That would have been strong enough to compete with the whole world. Too late now. We have allowed this bureaucratic behemoth to develop.
As we are still tied to the EU with so many things and I have no evidence that there is a concerted will amongst government to implement the changes that Brexit could have offered, its a no brainer. Governments need courage and this one has been spineless. Their only agenda is revenue through ever increasing direct and indirect taxation and screwing business to the floor.
We may as well rejoin the SM/CU as we are all going to be gone soon anyway. The apocalypse is coming. Scorching temperatures, Rising water levels. The only ones who don't seem bothered are mortgage companies. Still lending on London and beachside properties. Don't they realise they are going to be under water. Oh well....money talks.

Of course you didn't campaign constantly for Brexit all over NSC and then post this 2 days after the referendum

Sadly, you cannot fix the EU from the inside.
Farage was right and I can back him up ( with experience ) The organisation is rotten to the core. With power comes corruption and it is rife within the EU. The level of waste is staggeringly huge and there is no accountability. No internal fiscal control. They cannot sign off any set of accounts, therefore they are operating illegally. It is the most corrupt body on the face of the Earth and yet millions in this country glibly choose to ignore this and pursue some sort of Utopian dream.
My vote on Thursday was a vote for honesty, visibility, transparency and self-control. Its another matter if our own politicians waste money. We vote them in and we can vote them out again. We have some sort of control unlike this runaway black hole.
The EU is out of control. Eventually, it will eat itself and the dream will be over. All the member states will revert back to independency and all will continue to trade happily with each other. After all, business is business.

It's the Internet, everything is there in black and white

On the bright side, if even the most ardent hardcore Brexit supporters like yourself are now admitting that it was a complete and utter f*** up then maybe there's still hope. I wonder how many more are now having second thoughts, but don't want to admit it, even to themselves

 

[A1X]

There's still plenty of Wokeworrier/JCFG/PPF types about who think it's great.

And a lot of them won’t be convinced by any rational argument, they “won” and Brexit is worth it for all the “lefty tears” it causes. I honestly wonder if they could be satisfied by just giving them a big badge which says “I WON AND TRIGGERED THE SNOWFLAKES” while the grown ups get on with clearing up the mess.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There was no reason why Britain couldn't have stayed in the Horizon project in the Withdrawal Agreement, but Johnson was in so much of a hurry, tiny things like details didn't matter.

 

[taz]

The Amex remoaners section of brexit bores, if you have had a good pay rise thank brexit, if you think joining the single market is good prepare for a huge influx of cheap EU slave labour and a large share of the one million illegal migrants landing on the shores of Italy, spain and grease every year,, prepare to rip up every trade deal made or will be made with the rest of the planet because they will be crowded out by Brussels red tape, and prepare to pay £16 billion a year for the privilege

 

[The Clamp]

UK facing ‘brain drain’ of cancer researchers after failure to join EU scheme

Delay joining the Horizon Europe programme making it more difficult to attract and retain the brightest scientists

www.theguardian.com

Leavers have blood on their hands. Johnson especially.

 

[chickens]

As for Brexit......phew......bugger me......what a monumental catastrophe......Probably the worst decision in our history. I didn't vote on the day but my sympathies were with coming out. Reason....I have always disliked the way the Union was heading. Too large, too unwieldy and too many smaller countries relying on the contributions of the Big Boys. We needed a Northern European Alliance. UK, France, Germany and the Benelux countries. That would have been strong enough to compete with the whole world. Too late now. We have allowed this bureaucratic behemoth to develop.
As we are still tied to the EU with so many things and I have no evidence that there is a concerted will amongst government to implement the changes that Brexit could have offered, its a no brainer. Governments need courage and this one has been spineless. Their only agenda is revenue through ever increasing direct and indirect taxation and screwing business to the floor.
We may as well rejoin the SM/CU as we are all going to be gone soon anyway. The apocalypse is coming. Scorching temperatures, Rising water levels. The only ones who don't seem bothered are mortgage companies. Still lending on London and beachside properties. Don't they realise they are going to be under water. Oh well....money talks.

My suspicion on that last point is that mortgage companies will insist to those who took out mortgages, that they still own their underwater palaces, and the debt still stands.

They will argue that it was up to the homeowner to understand the likely effects of climate science, and the mortgage company is not responsible for the purchaser’s shortsightedness.

They won’t even offer complimentary oxygen tanks or gill transplants.