Boris Johnson to hold press conference at 4pm

[Gazwag]

Some people must burn up heaps of unnecessary angry energy in their hatred of politicians and people who have to make very difficult decisions.

When they are governing over a country which is filled with thick and selfish people. You only need to read the reports this morning of trains out of London last night jam packed with people heading out of tier 4 to infect those in tiers 1 and 2 just so they can have Christmas.

 

[pb21]

Whitty had a slide in that conference that showed that this strain was causing >25% of infections in November, and he said something like 'up from nothing in September - a very rapid increase'. And then went on to say that it's now causing >60% of infections. So, yes, there was clear indication in November that this particular mutation posed a different risk.

It does seem unlikely that they only found out about this new strain last week. It became public news last week but that's not the same thing.

Presumably, IMO, they were hoping it wasn't going to be bad news and nothing would need to change.

 

[Bozza]

Whitty had a slide in that conference that showed that this strain was causing >25% of infections in November, and he said something like 'up from nothing in September - a very rapid increase'. And then went on to say that it's now causing >60% of infections. So, yes, there was clear indication in November that this particular mutation posed a different risk.

Correlation does not equal causality.

Scientists only identified causality just over a week ago, and Hancock alerted the house on Monday.

Several scientists/viral academics I heard on 5Live (and, sorry, I didn't get their names) whilst out walking the dog earlier this morning said the government have acted decisively and with speed in the face of the information that has only just come to light.

I think fault can be levied for not caveating-to-the-hilt how proposed Christmas plans may have worked, and needing changes, but I've not heard from anyone to suggest the government have dithered or ignored the risks of this new strain for any period of time.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Presumably, IMO,

There seems to be an awful lot of that on this thread.

 

[Bozza]

It does seem unlikely that they only found out about this new strain last week. It became public news last week but that's not the same thing.

Presumably, IMO, they were hoping it wasn't going to be bad news and nothing would need to change.

This strain was identified in late September/early October but as I've said a few times there have been 4,000 new strains of this already so we can't simply stop the world each time one comes about.

The link between this new strain and accelerated growth of the virus only seems to have been made within the last 10 days or so.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No idea I’m just one of the millions of self employed being f.cked over by the government.

I'm sorry to hear that.

They seem to have had two choices - lock us all down till we have a vaccine (and pay people to be locked down) or shield the old and vulnerable (properly, with support - not just lock people in care homes and leave them to die) and let everyone else get on with it. They have done neither, and have tried to game it. I suppose that's what all governments have done, albeit ours have been worse than the rest judging by cases and deaths. It doesn't bode well.

My best wishes, for what they are worth.

 

[timbha]

Correlation does not equal causality.

Scientists only identified causality just over a week ago, and Hancock alerted the house on Monday.

Several scientists/viral academics I heard on 5Live (and, sorry, I didn't get their names) whilst out walking the dog earlier this morning said the government have acted decisively and with speed in the face of the information that has only just come to light.

I think fault can be levied for not caveating-to-the-hilt how proposed Christmas plans may have worked, and needing changes, but I've {not?} heard from anyone to suggest the government have dithered or ignored the risks of this new strain for any period of time.

Edited

That’s no going to go down well on here!

 

[vegster]

The science changed this week. Decisions were made this week. But you carry on sniping away if it makes you happy.

" The Science" did not change this week, it changed some time back. Almost immediately the government announced relaxing restrictions over Christmas it looked a risky move to many. Transmission rates and hospitalisation rates were rising before the Christmas rules were announced and showed no signs of slowing.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do they re-use single use masks?
Do they stuff them in pockets/bags?
Do they use scarfs/T-Shirts?

If they are doing that, I think you have a point on asking.

That’s misuse of masks. Like everything in life, there’s a right and a wrong way of doing something.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Edited

That’s no going to go down well on here!

It appears to be true.

That said it doesn't change the fact that Boris and chums have handled the crisis badly throughout, and made things worse (for themselves) with their hubris and lack of humility.

And I say that as someone prepared to cut them some slack at the start (and said so on NSC).

Hubris aside I will cut Boris some more slack now: by making himself look an utter fool by 'cancelling Christmas' days after mocking Starmer for proposing cancelling Christmas (and when he had done no such thing) Boris has apparently learned a lesson from the autumn when he ignored 'the science' and the calls for action for two critical weeks. Apparently he is capable of listening when advisors tell him 'don't **** it up again or you'll never be forgiven by the relatives of the dead'. Well done Boris.

 

[pb21]

There seems to be an awful lot of that on this thread.

Obviously.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Next time you have an operation or go to the dentist, tell them to take off their masks because they don't work.

Why do vets wear masks when operating on animals? It prevents them passing on infection.

You wear a mask to protect others.

and isn’t that so true ... but others feel so very hard done by in being expected to think of anyone but themselves. That’s probably a contributory factor in why we are where we are, but it’s easier to blame everyone else’s gaffs, errors and daft decisions that to take a look at themselves

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

" The Science" did not change this week, it changed some time back. Almost immediately the government announced relaxing restrictions over Christmas it looked a risky move to many. Transmission rates and hospitalisation rates were rising before the Christmas rules were announced and showed no signs of slowing.

I think to be fair to Boris, the 'science' that changed was proof that the new variant (i) has a different penetrance and (ii) has become dominant in north Kent.

But I agree that it was clear that numbers were increasing and Covid was demonstrating all the hallmarks of winter flu - which peaks in January, so, yes, until yesterday they were gambling with the nation's health in the hope of appearing popular for 'saving Christmas'.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Do they re-use single use masks?
Do they stuff them in pockets/bags?
Do they use scarfs/T-Shirts?

If they are doing that, I think you have a point on asking.

think he’s got a point asking anyhow.

 

[A mex eyecan]

In my opinion, Mouldy, This government have been given a relatively easy ride. I think if Jeremy had got in and made similar decisions, can you imagine the outcry.
I don't see myself as a 'Leftie' but it now seems if you actually care about other people, this is what you are labelled.
Present company accepted as you seem to accept that we need to do take action to stop the spread.
But all the time you have helmets like below, pushing the anti mask, anti lockdown agenda on right wing radio stations etc. then that becomes a much harder task.

https://youtu.be/Vurv270Uv0I

oh isn’t he a rebel!

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

think he’s got a point asking anyhow.

I am not against masks, but its completely different.

 

[Hampster Gull]

They seem to have had two choices - lock us all down till we have a vaccine (and pay people to be locked down) or shield the old and vulnerable (properly, with support - not just lock people in care homes and leave them to die) and let everyone else get on with it. They have done neither, and have tried to game it. I suppose that's what all governments have done, albeit ours have been worse than the rest judging by cases and deaths. It doesn't bode well.

I would add a third way, lock the borders down until theres a vaccine with inbound only with supervised isolation, national lockdown until the virus stops internally then open up domestically. The NZ and now Aussie approach. That was credible but also your second option. Difficult times

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I would add a third way, lock the borders down until theres a vaccine with inbound only with supervised isolation, national lockdown until the virus stops internally then open up domestically. The NZ and now Aussie approach. That was credible but also your second option. Difficult times

Different levels, but Haven't Australia got another outbreak?

Think I read they found the mutant strain there as well?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

and isn’t that so true ... but others feel so very hard done by in being expected to think of anyone but themselves. That’s probably a contributory factor in why we are where we are, but it’s easier to blame everyone else’s gaffs, errors and daft decisions that to take a look at themselves

I may have mentioned....chap at work was wearing his bandada when I went in 2 weeks ago. Which he kept pulling down. He's an anti vaxer, luddite Millwall supporter who refuses to vote but supports Brexit. Suffers from fits of rage (smashed up his hand punching a wall a couple of years ago). Other than that, a really nice lad. Sometimes it's easy to forget that large swathes of the UK are people whose brains simply don't work all that well. I guess we need them or the shit jobs would never get done. And it isn't their fault. Normally it is little more than tiresome for the rest of us. However on this occasion . . . . .

 

[WATFORD zero]

This strain was identified in late September/early October but as I've said a few times there have been 4,000 new strains of this already so we can't simply stop the world each time one comes about.

The link between this new strain and accelerated growth of the virus only seems to have been made within the last 10 days or so.

All of this I agree with. The difference between us is, I believe, that I think this new strain added some urgency to what was already a worsening situation that really needed addressing and had done since the 'Xmas plan' was announced at the beginning of December. I don't believe you agree with me on this.

But, c'est la vie

And because I was found sadly lacking in my knowledge of the 'Xmas plan' I've done a little bit of reading and agree that it was a plan agreed by all four heads and they are all equally incompetent. (I also discovered that Scotland had changed their plan within 24 hrs of it being announced).