Boris Johnson to hold press conference at 4pm

[clapham_gull]

I have. Above. Listed many names.

But it's a simple repetition of "lockdowns don't work" in the belief that lockdowns are supposed to eradicate the virus.

Peter Hitchens, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Allison Pearson and all the other "don't tell me what to do" brigade on Twitter and Youtube are just one trick ponies, guilty of the same thing.

If you don't like the answer, just change the question or find a outlier scientist who backs up their argument.

In reality all they are doing (cynically) is carving out a career in the media by lazily going against the grain knowing that people will erroneously believe then to be independent thinkers.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Well exactly. So if you’re questioning who is right then why not question the current actions rather than blindly accept?

Whereas some act as if they are qualified, I don’t claim to have the answer or to know that i am right. I’m just thinking critically, reading and listening to the scientific community and trying to understand the necessities for the governments current course of action.

The one thing I am understanding is that science is not unilaterally behind the Tories current stance. So for that reason I expect a higher standard of explanation passed to the public to justify their plan of action.

Professor Paul Moynagh, expert immunologist:

https://www.independent.ie/world-ne...he-virus-professor-paul-moynagh-39497663.html

So you have been 'thinking critically, reading and listening to the scientific community' yet the best source that you can put forward to support your argument is a newspaper interview with a professor from a minor university in Ireland?!

I think that in itself is proof that these views are in the minority.

 

[Klaas]

Is that the guy who said he wasn’t going to make COVID a political battle and he would back the government?

I thought he was the sensible man asking reasonable questions to a bumbling oaf, braying about 'cancelling Christmas'. If indulging in populist twattery isn't making covid a political battle, I'm a contagious disease expert.

 

[Goldstone1976]

A bit like leaving some cat food out for the local hedgehogs [emoji3071]

I did this last week. The cat ate it.

Mind you, the cat will eat anything: asparagus, broccoli, green beans, mushroom, nuts, aubergine... never seen anything like it.

 

[Hamilton]

Boris suffers from vanity. He wants everyone to love him and so naively takes the populist route ignoring any difficult long term strategy. As a result, he can’t take difficult decisions.

This was all inevitable, mutant strain or not. We all knew that easing restrictions would result in an increase in hospitalizations at a time when the NHS is already traditionally under pressure. Now, it will collapse as it is already both dealing with Covid-19, a vaccination programme and its usual workload.

People will die. Not just of Covid but also of cancer, other respiratory diseases, heart diseases, and any other number of long and short illnesses that are usually treated by the NHS when beds are available. They will die because of Boris’s lack of leadership.

Even now, when he has the chance to impose a total lockdown at Christmas, he has still failed. He wants to be loved, and so he is going to let families spread Covid for 24 hours on the 25th.

Boris lost the country way back. Barnard Castle, dodgy PPE deals, decisions made up as we go along; eat out to kill you gran; the list goes on. As a result businesses find themselves in a position whereby they have to sell presents and turkeys in order to survive. The only turkey is Boris’s leadership. I have no time for those who say they don’t think anyone could have led well through this. Boris has been a national disaster.

Look ahead to Easter. We might just have one, but not with this fool in charge.


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[Goldstone1976]

... and however you are spending your Christmas, I wish you all the best you can possibly have.

This.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHQO9LT6ZI
Regards
DF

 

[Seagull27]

Start by looking through my posts above, I gave some links and quotes.

It’s morbid, but you can examine the official death statistics here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ (note nearly all victims are 80+).

Covid is real. The simple fact is for the vast majority of the population, it will be mild symptoms. So the question is, is a full lockdown required for this again, especially with vaccines incoming. I don’t claim to know the answer.

I'm sorry to say I think you (and many others who have taken this line of reasoning) are missing the point slightly.

The argument that the virus only mildly affects the majority of the population, and that many of those who are affected badly are 80+ and may well have died of something else - it holds some merit if that was the only consideration, even if it is a little insensitive.

But the problem is, even if that group is a relatively small percentage of the population, those people will fill the hospitals rapidly if the virus is left to spread unfettered. That puts all of us at huge risk if we become ill or injured by other means, as there simply won't be the space or the staff to treat us. Then the non-covid deaths will rise quickly as well as Covid deaths.

So what other choice do we have, other than lockdown, how would we manage that?

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[BN41Albion]

I agree, but in the absence of any other data I personally find the deaths per 100,000 a more meaningful statistic than just total deaths per country.

Yeah, definitely the most meaningful overall.

 

[Hamilton]

I'm sorry to say I think you (and many others who have taken this line of reasoning) are missing the point slightly.

The argument that the virus only mildly affects the majority of the population, and that many of those who are affected badly are 80+ and may well have died of something else - it holds some merit if that was the only consideration, even if it is a little insensitive.

But the problem is, even if that group is a relatively small percentage of the population, those people will fill the hospitals rapidly if the virus is left to spread unfettered. That puts all of us at huge risk if we become ill or injured by other means, as there simply won't be the space or the staff to treat us. Then the non-covid deaths will rise quickly as well as Covid deaths.

So what other choice do we have, other than lockdown, how would we manage that?

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It beggars belief that people can't see the relatively simple argument you've presented. As I keep telling people, this is not about the risk of Covid to 'you', it's about the reality of Covid when it comes to putting stress on our systems.

 

[CHAPPERS]

It beggars belief that people can't see the relatively simple argument you've presented. As I keep telling people, this is not about the risk of Covid to 'you', it's about the reality of Covid when it comes to putting stress on our systems.

Not to mention vaccine roll out. We should be looking to stamp this out once and for all in the next two months or so.

 

[sparkie]

Lockdown did work. It was the subsequent relaxing of restrictions that didn’t work.

"Eat out to kill your elderly relatives" was an almost criminal failure.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Do you also award E- to Remainers Drakeford and Sturgeon, as well as EC stalwarts Macron, Conte, Wilmes, Rutte and Sanchez? Without an anti-EU bone in their bodies, they also presided over awful CV19 metrics. Despite having those same early warnings.

I used the toxic word which i should have known would side track the point. I wasn't making a Brexit point, other than to note the government isn't the most talented individuals available in the conservative party because of that. Not sure many would dispute that. So yes, i would expect they would have got a better mark without some of those leading the charge.

The OP said it would cripple all governments no matter what brand or nationality. That is clearly wrong.

I’m not one who believes we are in the pack in terms of how effective our response was or that our outcome results were a given in the UK regardless of leadership?

 

[Chicken Run]

"Eat out to kill your elderly relatives" was an almost criminal failure.

And as evil & criminal as it was is was hugely popular with the public and the hospitality a like [emoji102]

https://www.bighospitality.co.uk/Ar...success-by-majority-of-hospitality-businesses

 

[mikeyjh]

eat out to kill you gran

Dark thought it is, I like that one, hadn't heard it. One thing I would say - And I say this in total agreement that Johnson's handling of this has been (unsurprisingly) an absolute disaster - People have to look at themselves, there were plenty on here bragging of the advantage they were taking of that policy in August.... It was all so utterly predictable.

 

[R. Slicker]

At risk of making too subtle a point, if you agree with Hitchens then you probably are wrong. He's a career contrarian who will do anything to make the most obnoxious point in the haughtiest possible way. No idea why he's talking to Owen Jones - this continuous concept of needing to engage with right-wing bellends is tiringly doomed to failure.

Although I'm sure I saw a screenshot from one of his interviews that was in an office immediately next to one I worked in for a lot of last year the other day, which was a Richter-sized thrill in the scheme of my life

Hitchens is also regularly interviewed on Talkradio, That should tell people what they need to know.

 

[Stat Brother]

So you have been 'thinking critically, reading and listening to the scientific community' yet the best source that you can put forward to support your argument is a newspaper interview with a professor from a minor university in Ireland?!

I think that in itself is proof that these views are in the minority.

We're living in a Trumpian future.

This is his legacy and feck me it's going to far more damage than anything he did in power.

Have no understanding of a topic.
Don't like the news.
Decide it's fake.
Find an echo chamber you do like.
Then present someone with a qualification.
Tell everyone else they are the truth.
Get upset when the 'expert' is questioned.

 

[Notters]

Has anyone managed to explain how most of east Sussex is still tier 2? Sorry if I've missed it.

 

[Stat Brother]

I was always under the impression the success criteria for the first UK lockdown was to stop the NHS being swamped and buy us some time.
In that regard it worked.
I was always acutely aware of Prof Whitty warning months and months ago the second wave could be far worse and there was a real possibility covid would be seasonal and ongoing.

And here we are.

Never bought into the theory lockdowns would help eradicate covid, simply not possible given global travel and people shuffling about. A global vaccine will go some way to winning this thing, but even then there could be localised outbreaks. The good news at that stage would be that localised hard lockdowns could prevent further spread.

This whole thing is an ongoing learning experience for every country with numerous unexpected twists and turns

So as the mask wearing expert, stood 2 metres to the right of Boris, said months and months ago the second strain could be far far worse why did Boris proclaimed he was "Saving Christmas" and allowing all manner of social interaction?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So, why did Sturgeon act tonight, by shortening Xmas from 5 to 1 day?

There must be new information eg on the virulence of the new strain.

This afternoon Italy changed tack completely, with a full lockdown over Christmas and separately over New Year.

Wales followed by bringing in tough restrictions tonight.

It’s a fluid situation, non-Tory administrations across Europe are making an awful load of u-turms. Perhaps Johnson, Sturgeon and the rest shouldn’t make promises. But then they are criticised for not giving certainty for the weeks and months ahead. I recall in November the media and Labour clammer for Uni students to be given the go ahead to see Granny and parents at Xmas ... it was inhumane to prevent that. Sturgeon in particular was lambasted as particularly nasty.

Porton Down was warning the government of the virus mutation a few weeks ago, but Johnson likes being popular and wanted to be known as ‘saving Christmas’. He left it until the last possible moment, which built up hope. Now many feel very let down.
He shouldn’t have promised anything but said the situation will be monitored.