Boris is NOT running

[Seagull58]

He also pointed out that even if, by some miracle, you could get 400 trained up (which he said was impossible) then they would be torn apart by the cream of 27 other countries highly experienced negotiators.

He wasn't being nashing and wailing about this, just presenting it matter of factly like a good Civil Servant.

Which 27 countries are you talking about? The UK is not going to concentrate all it's efforts on negotiating trade agreements with the EU countries. India, Canada, Mexico, the USA, South Korea etc. all want to do trade deals with the UK. India has been trying for 7 years to get a trade deal with the EU without success.

 

[pb21]

Heseltine is bang on about Boris.

Were you watching BBC news?

He is not a happy bunny!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Were you watching BBC news?

He is not a happy bunny!

Hezza was having a right hissy. He was incandescent.

 

[Seagull58]

Hezza was having a right hissy. He was incandescent.

He would be, wouldn't he? He resigned from Thatcher's cabinet because of his Europhile view regarding Westlands.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

The figure quoted was 400, as posted elsewhere. The article I read in The Times was by Sir Christopher Meyer, former British ambassador to The United States and Germany. I appreciate he's part of the establishment and people in this country have had enough of experts, but he also argued that every Whitehall department needs to be increased in size now. The UK also needs to increase the size and influence of every diplomatic mission abroad and that defence spending needs to be increased to ensure our purpose and relevance in the new world we're now into.

When are divorces ever cheap; expenditure was always going to increase to manage this and it was likely to be against a backdrop of negative growth. This is without looking at the opportunity cost of focussing on this pointless exercise rather than addressing the many real problems we face. So we all end up poorer, with less access to research funding , with similar levels of immigration, an expensive trade deal and the freedom from legislation which, in most cases, is to the benefit of working people.to begin with and with massively reduced international influence. Thanks Boris!

 

[lawros left foot]

I have no idea if the real reasons that Boris had stood aside, no more than anyone here who claims to be in the know, however it is likely in my opinion that Boris had been outmanoeuvred. The remain lot are DESPERATE to blame someone for the vote that they lost as is Michael Heseltine who is in good company mithering and crying his way through the interview. Boris is a convenient scapegoat for all the terrible things that have happened. Or maybe, just maybe the remain lot will be surprised and all this angst and whinging will have been needless.

Boris stood aside because he never thought he would win the referendum, and that he would be the one to unite the Tory partys Leavers and remainders, as Cameron wound down the four years of his premiership, with ,Boris, the darling of the grassroots in the box seat.
By resigning before anyone expected it , Cameron ruined these carefully laid plans. I also wonder if Goves best mate, Cameron had anything to do with Goves decision to knife Boris.

 

[The Clamp]

Johnson is no scapegoat. He was against leaving as recently as January. Then he got a sniff of power and backed leave. The he realised what an utter mess he's have to sort out and chickened out. Scapegoat? Lazy, conniving git would be more accurate.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Which 27 countries are you talking about? The UK is not going to concentrate all it's efforts on negotiating trade agreements with the EU countries. India, Canada, Mexico, the USA, South Korea etc. all want to do trade deals with the UK. India has been trying for 7 years to get a trade deal with the EU without success.

Yes it is, as all our current trade treaties with other countries go via the EU. These all have to be unravelled first.

 

[ManOfSussex]

When are divorces ever cheap; expenditure was always going to increase to manage this and it was likely to be against a backdrop of negative growth. This is without looking at the opportunity cost of focussing on this pointless exercise rather than addressing the many real problems we face. So we all end up poorer, with less access to research funding , with similar levels of immigration, an expensive trade deal and the freedom from legislation which, in most cases, is to the benefit of working people.to begin with and with massively reduced international influence. Thanks Boris!

Which sums up my view on this being an exercise in futility entirely.

 

[Seagull58]

Yes it is, as all our current trade treaties with other countries go via the EU. These all have to be unravelled first.

The UK doesn't have current trade treaties with those countries. The EU does. We are leaving the EU. That's why those countries want trade deals with the UK.

 

[ManOfSussex]

He would be, wouldn't he? He resigned from Thatcher's cabinet because of his Europhile view regarding Westlands.

It was almost scary. A bit like Barker Haines in Isidingo.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This may have been said before, but if parliament votes to fire the Brexit gun, doesn't this have to be passed by the House of Lords? I recall them scuppering a labour decision a long time ago. I have a feeling they did the same to Thatcher. Then someone discovered the Parliament act that allows parliament to overrule the Lords, after a period of pussyfooting.

If May wins she wanst to appoint a Brexit minister to work out exactly what negotiations and objectived we will have when negociating new terms in the two years before the trap door opens. Any rival who wins the leadership will have to do much the same. In other words, because there is absolutely no plan, or agreed objectives, the government will have to invent some before declaring article 50.

BUT surely the plan will have to go to a parliament vote which, even if successful, will then need to pass the Lords.

This thing could either run and run, or government could try to get approved a half arsed plan that will either be accepted or not. At least, if not, then initially not. If it all looks like a gerry built outhouse, I can't see either parliament or the Lords just letting it through. It would be like send a child out to hunt for dinner, armed with a rusty gun that may fire, or blow up in the kid's hands.

With time, as we settle down, the lunacy and unseaworthiness of this Brexit adventure may become clearer. At that point, perhaps May might say 'enough'. If so that means a general election with May making a binning of the Brexit plan as part of the tory Manifesto.

Or if she thinks this is untenable then she may resign and invite the tories to select a true Brexitter prepared to give the kid the gun. By then labour may have sorted itself out, and the inevitable general election would be a rerun of the Brexit vote, but this time with the electoral college that is parliamentary democrasy (600 odd first past the post seats) rather than a simple voter majority determining the outcome.

Nobody likes uncertainty. The markets will settle for the next 6 months. But once decision time looms, it will all go mental again. What a bloody mess.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

The UK doesn't have current trade treaties with those countries. The EU does. We are leaving the EU. That's why those countries want trade deals with the UK.

We are still part of the EU that has trade treaties with those countries and thus we need to extricate ourselves from all those deals first, hence the negotiations. Once that occurs then we make deals with other countries if they still want them seeing that the goalposts will have been moved.

 

[Questions]

Just read a piece from The Sun online ( I don't usually - honest ) saying how a smear campaign was out to get him from the pro Cameron mob. They then list every detail that you could think of that a smear campaign would include in an attack. From being the first twice married PM to his numerous affairs, one resulting in one of the women having an abortion.

It's The Sun what did it Boris. They were going to go for him after Murdoch had got what he wanted out of him. Hence Mrs Gove saying her wonderful husband should stand because he was more popular with certain parts of the media.
Tell me I'm lying.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

For the first time I allowed myself to engage with this Brexit and then Boris for P M thing. Against all expectations we actually won the vote !
Today I see the politicians are just what I always thought they were ..Backstabbing conniving B********s who will do and say anything for power. Why do I now believe that we are going to be stitched up with a fudged deal to keep our European masters happy and keep what we dislike the most about the E U?
It is back to being a disconnected onlooker for me......Roll on the football season .

 

[pb21]

Just read a piece from The Sun online ( I don't usually - honest ) saying how a smear campaign was out to get him from the pro Cameron mob. They then list every detail that you could think of that a smear campaign would include in an attack. From being the first twice married PM to his numerous affairs, one resulting in one of the women having an abortion.

It's The Sun what did it Boris. They were going to go for him after Murdoch had got what he wanted out of him. Hence Mrs Gove saying her wonderful husband should stand because he was more popular with certain parts of the media.
Tell me I'm lying.

It's not outside the realms of possibility, I'm sure Dave has friends in high places (Brooks etc.) and a few favours to call in.

 

[Gwylan]

Just read a piece from The Sun online ( I don't usually - honest ) saying how a smear campaign was out to get him from the pro Cameron mob. They then list every detail that you could think of that a smear campaign would include in an attack. From being the first twice married PM to his numerous affairs, one resulting in one of the women having an abortion.

It's The Sun what did it Boris. They were going to go for him after Murdoch had got what he wanted out of him. Hence Mrs Gove saying her wonderful husband should stand because he was more popular with certain parts of the media.
Tell me I'm lying.

Johnson would have got a load of flak all round. Remember, he got sacked by the Telegraph for lying, got sacked as a junior minister for lying and then told some massive fibs during the Leave campaign. Thirty years ago, those offences would have made his candidacy untenable, regardless of anything else.

I think he thought he could bluster his way through them, crack a few jokes and while he wouldn't have great support from MPs, as the leading Brexiter he'd get enough. That was all killed by Gove sticking the knife in - how quickly it all changes.

"Only yesterday the word of Caesar might have stood against the world. Now he lies there worth nothing, and no one is so humble as to show him respect ..."

 

[ManOfSussex]

Cameron knew as soon as he resigned Johnson was history as well. Johnson's victory speech, his Daily Telegraph article seemingly indicating that free movement would stay - He never wanted or expected Brexit yet he campaigned for it for his own gains and it all blew up in his and everyone else's face. He actually passionately campaigned for something he didn't want!

 

[Seagull58]

It was almost scary. A bit like Barker Haines in Isidingo.

Funny. How do you know about Isidingo?

 

[Soulman]

Cameron knew as soon as he resigned Johnson was history as well. Johnson's victory speech, his Daily Telegraph article seemingly indicating that free movement would stay - He never wanted or expected Brexit yet he campaigned for it for his own gains and it all blew up in his and everyone else's face. He actually passionately campaigned for something he didn't want!

" he campaigned for it for his own gains"......so what has Boris gained.