Boris is NOT running

[Seagull58]

I've seen lots of references to snap elections on various forums and social media. I also point out the FTPA and ask how we're going to have a snap election. So far, no-one has an answer, apart from one joker who thought it would take about an hour to get a new Act through parliament.

I'm waiting for any coherent answer

They are simply clutching at straws, hoping that a government will be elected on a remain platform. There will be no election till 2020.

 

[HOFNSKIN]

Boris Johnson and David Cameron have just done to the UK what they did to restaurants in Oxford in the 80s. Trash 'em then ran away.

 

[sten_super]

That's not how it works. The majority voted for Brexit and immigration controls was part of the Brexit platform. Cameron agrees, May agrees, Gove agrees, Leadsom agrees and I'm sure Crabb agrees too..

That line of argument doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. £350m a week to the NHS was also part of the Brexit platform, but no-one intends to honour that. As was taking back control, and no-one has a scooby's what that even means. A big part of the problem with the discussions around the referendum was that the implications were not fully understood (or were understood differently by different people).

Theresa May has clearly taken the view that EU immigration control was central enough to the Brexit campaign that she needs to do something about it. That's her decision to make, and it's her MPs, and then the Tory members, jobs to vote for her or someone else as PM on the basis of that platform.

 

[Seagull58]

Article 50 still needs a parliamentary vote before our "unknown" future PM can trigger it.

At the moment we have no organised government and the opposition has left the building, which means we have an ineffective parliament who are not fit to vote on anything.

It's only been a week and we have entered the Twilight Zone, with the collapse of government not predicted by either campaigns. What a Larf

The only winners of all this will be the civil servants in UK and EU, with further £millions of political hours wasted on a red herring instead of concentrating on modernising the union.

By modernising the union do you mean the EU? Good luck with that.

 

[Seagull58]

Copied and pasted from Facebook, but it amused me.

So, let me get this straight... the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.

Clear?

But the economy hasn't crashed.

 

[Seagull58]

I read in The Times yesterday that there are no more than 20 individuals in Whitehall with any experience of trade expertise needed for negotiating all these wonderful new free global trade deals we're going to have.

How many do you need? It's not the EU and we also have private sector expertise in international trade negotiations. We've been doing it for centuries.

 

[driller]

Yep, there is also an added reality TV element to this as well. Politics is starting to mirror Big Brother

I hope not - I am not going to watch Teresa May be finger blasted on tv

 

[marshy68]

I didn't like the Brexit vote, but I reluctantly accepted its validity.

Not any fxxkin more I don't!

That buffoon won the vote to leave and now he does not have the balls to stand by his own convictions (or lack of them). Whoever becomes PM should call a general election, and then hopefully some kind of coalition will run on a 'remain' ticket. Plenty won't like it, but after the lies and mistruths exposed since last week and the complete cowardice shown by one of the architects of this disaster it is the only sensible way forward, and to remind many, the referendum was never legally binding anyway.

Nail on head

 

[symyjym]

By modernising the union do you mean the EU? Good luck with that.

Bank of England Carney: "Warns of risk to economy from Brexit, it is more complex, and the forecasting models are less reliable"

The EU is always trying to improve and although it's a slow process it is stable and does not have the same uncertainty economically.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

....

 

[The Merry Prankster]

How many do you need? It's not the EU and we also have private sector expertise in international trade negotiations. We've been doing it for centuries.

Apparently 400. Sauce - Government's head trade negotiator. He also pointed out that legal severance from the EU will take up the next 10 Queen's speeches leaving no room for domestic legislation. These woul have been useful facts for people to have known prior to voting I'd have thought.

 

[Machiavelli]

I read in The Times yesterday that there are no more than 20 individuals in Whitehall with any experience of trade expertise needed for negotiating all these wonderful new free global trade deals we're going to have.

We might say that there's so few of them because such experts are now out of favour. But on a more serious note, and one that hasn't been widely considered, what this is actually going to do is increase bureaucracy: instead of getting a body with 28 nations to forge trade deals with other major (and minor) trading partners, we will go about devising, negotiating, drafting, monitoring and amending the same trade deals our little own selves.
This not only means that we currently don't have those in Whitehall with the expertise (at the drafting stage, when it really matters), but there will be more members of the elite/establishment created to fulfil this role.

 

[Machiavelli]

Apparently 400. Sauce - Government's head trade negotiator. He also pointed out that legal severance from the EU will take up the next 10 Queen's speeches leaving no room for domestic legislation. These woul have been useful facts for people to have known prior to voting I'd have thought.

Well, you've made my previous post a tad more concrete.

 

[Seagull58]

That line of argument doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. £350m a week to the NHS was also part of the Brexit platform, but no-one intends to honour that. As was taking back control, and no-one has a scooby's what that even means. A big part of the problem with the discussions around the referendum was that the implications were not fully understood (or were understood differently by different people).

Theresa May has clearly taken the view that EU immigration control was central enough to the Brexit campaign that she needs to do something about it. That's her decision to make, and it's her MPs, and then the Tory members, jobs to vote for her or someone else as PM on the basis of that platform.

Gove, Leadsom and Fox also have that view. I don't know about Crabb but his view doesn't matter.

 

[marshy68]

Whoever wins the Tory Party leadership is in for a hard time. There will be pressure to call an election to validate the government again. Then they have to invoke article 50 and start the negotiation on leaving the EU. What happens then do they come back with the offer from the EU and put it to the people again eg this is what you get if you leave this what you get if you stay? I don't know if its even possible to go back once you have invoked article 50. However, I don't see the EU being overly generous in their concessions to the UK. They wont give us a great deal as they wont want any other members getting the hump and leaving.

I voted remain, but accept the result, I think its a terrible result for the future of our country and my little daughter. I hope there is a way back from this or that I am proved hugely wrong and everything will be ok. I still struggle to understand a majority of my country folk could vote for something in the hope it would be ok without knowing any of the consequences. It now seems patently clear that the leader of the leave campaign hasn't got the balls to see it through. Whether or not he has been politically out manoeuvred by Cameron and Gove he should have stuck to his alleged principles if he really believed in them. As others have said this really is a shambles. God knows what the future holds.

 

[ManOfSussex]

We might say that there's so few of them because such experts are now out of favour. But on a more serious note, and one that hasn't been widely considered, what this is actually going to do is increase bureaucracy: instead of getting a body with 28 nations to forge trade deals with other major (and minor) trading partners, we will go about devising, negotiating, drafting, monitoring and amending the same trade deals our little own selves.
This not only means that we currently don't have those in Whitehall with the expertise (at the drafting stage, when it really matters), but there will be more members of the elite/establishment created to fulfil this role.

Totally agree. The true legacy of Brexit hasn't even begun.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I don't know if its even possible to go back once you have invoked article 50.

I read it would require the consent of all other EU members.

 

[Seagull58]

Apparently 400. Sauce - Government's head trade negotiator. He also pointed out that legal severance from the EU will take up the next 10 Queen's speeches leaving no room for domestic legislation. These woul have been useful facts for people to have known prior to voting I'd have thought.

You may need 400 people in total to handle trade negotiations but I'd be very surprised if they all had to be experts in the topic. The ones making travel arrangements and printing and binding documents certainly don't have to be.

 

[marshy68]

What I can't quite get my head around is if the EU wants to impose tariffs on our exports to Europe, why can't we impose our own tariffs on them to effectively cancel each other out? I haven't seen this issue covered in any of the discussions - anyone got a sensible answer?

That's exactly what will happen if no agreement is made, the issue is we import more from the EU than we export. German cars, Wine and food will all become much more expensive in this country... not sure what we export to EU? Financial services and Japanese cars?? The problem is things that we want to buy in our local shops will be more expensive, but we will have our sovereignty..... oh yes and the lorded border controls. Happy days ahead.

 

[Gwylan]

Whoever wins the Tory Party leadership is in for a hard time. There will be pressure to call an election to validate the government again.

As beorthelm and I have already mentioned, it's highly unlikely that there'll be an election before 2020. Pressure from whom? The electorate? They've already spoken. The Labour party? They're in too much of a mess for an election.

And even if the new leader wanted one: how is he/she going to get it? As I mentioned earlier, I keep asking people who talk about early elections how that's going to happen and no-one ever answers