Boris is NOT running

[Questions]

It's not outside the realms of possibility, I'm sure Dave has friends in high places (Brooks etc.) and a few favours to call in.

No I don't actually know if there is a Cameron hatchet team out there pb21. What I meant was that The Sun was withdrawing their backing. I don't necessarily think Cameron would encourage that sort of underhand behaviour but it's the Suns insinuation that it's coming out now......... Yes from them and there is more than just the things Gwylan has quoted I suspect.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Funny. How do you know about Isidingo?

I used to watch it on SABC3 when I was down in your part of the world. Isidingo, 7 de Laan, Generations, - I used to watch the lot on the philibao satellite, despite having DSTV as well.

I lived in Gaborone for a couple of years. Long story though...................

 

[ManOfSussex]

" he campaigned for it for his own gains"......so what has Boris gained.

Exactly. Hoping for a narrow defeat and promising something else after replacing Cameron in 2020? Utter, utter madness!

 

[Soulman]

Exactly. Hoping for a narrow defeat and promising something else after replacing Cameron in 2020? Utter, utter madness!

So "" he campaigned for it for his own gains".....but did not gain, fair enough.

 

[ManOfSussex]

So "" he campaigned for it for his own gains".....but did not gain, fair enough.

Why campaign for something if you don't want to gain something from it though? As soon as the result was known he changed his tune. He must have been hoping to gain something from all of this or is he really that mad? Narrow victory for 'remain', unfinished business and all that and replace Cameron at No.10 in 2020 or sooner is my guess on what he was trying to do. Perhaps one day he might enlighten us himself honestly with what he was actually trying to do.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Which 27 countries are you talking about? The UK is not going to concentrate all it's efforts on negotiating trade agreements with the EU countries. India, Canada, Mexico, the USA, South Korea etc. all want to do trade deals with the UK. India has been trying for 7 years to get a trade deal with the EU without success.

The 27 countries of the EU. They negociate as a single unit. Hence single market. You can't pick and chose. If you are really only interested in trading with, say, Germany and France you still have to get the agreement of the other 25. Are you seriously suggesting that not having a trade agreement with the EU wouldn't be a disaster for us. If you are let's not bother continuing this conversation.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

This has all been a version of the Eton Wall Game in which the rest of us have been the ball. Just imagine if we could spend all the money that has been, and will be, wasted on this in actually investing in the communities that so many of us have neglected; it could make a real difference but at the time when this is most needed, the money won't be there. Just to add that I am a Labour Party member and I think that we take some responsibility for the situation in these communities and for not listening enough, so I am not trying to score a cheap point.

 

[severnside gull]

Johnson is a complete and utter charlatan and by outing him on the guidance of his press overlords (wasn't that a telling email from his missus) Gove has handed the PM job to Theresa May.
Hilarious to see her trying to redefine her history as being somehow humble - the former Oxford Union official Returning Officer who married the Oxford Union President and went to work for the Bank of England. Her platform is to negotiate free trade with the EU coupled with restrictions on free movement which as she and everyone else with half a brain cell and an ear trumpet knows is never going to be achievable. Start as you mean to go on. Start with a lie.
Farcical.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

When are divorces ever cheap; expenditure was always going to increase to manage this and it was likely to be against a backdrop of negative growth. This is without looking at the opportunity cost of focussing on this pointless exercise rather than addressing the many real problems we face. So we all end up poorer, with less access to research funding , with similar levels of immigration, an expensive trade deal and the freedom from legislation which, in most cases, is to the benefit of working people.to begin with and with massively reduced international influence. Thanks Boris!

Don't forget losing our veto on EU policy.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Don't forget losing our veto on EU policy.

Including a veto on any future EU expansion including the acceptance of Turkey. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind here.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why campaign for something if you don't want to gain something from it though? As soon as the result was known he changed his tune. He must have been hoping to gain something from all of this or is he really that mad? Narrow victory for 'remain', unfinished business and all that and replace Cameron at No.10 in 2020 or sooner is my guess on what he was trying to do. Perhaps one day he might enlighten us himself honestly with what he was actually trying to do.

Apparently (radio 5 source) Boris admits he wrote two articles with opposite Brexit conclusion a while back. He decided to back Brexit because the only thing in favour of remain (in his article) of any substance was loyalty to Cameron and, in his own words, this was 'not enough'. That just about sums up the man. Amongst a page of 'what ifs' and 'maybe the others', the one thing that should have swayed him to support remain, was the thing he deemed insufficient. And he was not contrasting all the great remain advantages with a short list that featured primarily loyalty - because he had no prior record of being a committed Brexiter. And then he mouthed 'rubbish' when Cameron gave his 'vote remain' speach in Parliament. From 'loyal supporter' of Cameron to sneering heckler. What a guy. And as Hezza said today, Boris was an important factor that helped to swing the vote in a narrow contest. And despite the endless statements that 17 million support Brexit, 16 million supported remain. The vote that should never have happened had an outcome swayed by someone who used his celebrity in pursuit of his own gain, rather than deeply held beliefs, in support of an outcome that he can hardly be described as sincerely supporting.

I work with a guy who is just like Boris. He is extremely charismatic. He comes up with half baked ideas that he then pursues ruthlessly. When forced to defend them in committee, he jumps ship or comes up with ludicrous and contradictory alternative proposals. He has a whim of iron. He has no conscience, no principles, and has been described as someone who shoots a shotgun into the sky just to see what sort of bird might fall into his lap. A lovely mixed metaphore that sums up Boris equally well. How do they survive and thrive? The gullability of people in the presence of charisma.

There is another analogy - these people are like shitehawks - they squark and flap and cover everyone in their shit. I don't like this analogy because, as I am sure you know, 'shitehawk' is a colloquialism for 'seagull' <sigh> - first smiley I've posted for days . . .

 

[Seagull58]

The 27 countries of the EU. They negociate as a single unit. Hence single market. You can't pick and chose. If you are really only interested in trading with, say, Germany and France you still have to get the agreement of the other 25. Are you seriously suggesting that not having a trade agreement with the EU wouldn't be a disaster for us. If you are let's not bother continuing this conversation.

No. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that we will negotiate with the EU, not with 27 countries but with a single EU trading block, but we will also negotiate with many other nations and trading blocks. I never at any point suggested that we would negotiate with Germany or France as individual countries.

 

[Hillian1]

Including a veto on any future EU expansion including the acceptance of Turkey. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind here.

Greece and Cyprus will always veto that.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Greece and Cyprus will always veto that.

I'm sure plenty of EU countries will veto it. We're relying on them to do so though.

 

[Hillian1]

I'm sure plenty of EU countries will veto it. We're relying on them to do so though.

Well quite, but before "we" voted to leave it was very much in our own hands.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Greece and Cyprus will always veto that.

As will Austria

 

[ManOfSussex]

Well quite, but before "we" voted to leave it was very much in our own hands.

Indeed it was.

 

[biddles911]

Johnson would have got a load of flak all round. Remember, he got sacked by the Telegraph for lying, got sacked as a junior minister for lying and then told some massive fibs during the Leave campaign. Thirty years ago, those offences would have made his candidacy untenable, regardless of anything else.

I think he thought he could bluster his way through them, crack a few jokes and while he wouldn't have great support from MPs, as the leading Brexiter he'd get enough. That was all killed by Gove sticking the knife in - how quickly it all changes.

"Only yesterday the word of Caesar might have stood against the world. Now he lies there worth nothing, and no one is so humble as to show him respect ..."

There seems to be an automatic assumption that Gove didn't know that Boris wasn't going to run.

As his right hand man for many weeks, I think it far more likely that BJ told Gove in advance of his decision, who then decided to run as the most senior Brexiteer left?

Have to blame Cameron for this shambles and not forcing the Brexiteers to put up a coherent exit plan for the country to consider properly.

We're now left with no clear plan, EU making it crystal clear from all quarters that free movement is not negotiable and years of horse trading to get out of the EU and make new deals with umpteen nations with every likelihood that we'll achieve almost none of the aims of the Brexiteers.

Pity Mark Carney's not available for PM! Thought his words of measured wisdom today and last Friday were a huge tonic after the rubbish spouted by all the politicians and probably the only reason the markets have settled down a bit.....


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[sir albion]

Time for a dominant leader with passion and someone who has a presence !!!
I'm bored of the public soppy school boy types and clearly none of the men in the running would do a good job.

A certain lady had a wonderful,powerful speech earlier and she is miles ahead of the rest and rightly so

Boris as pm would have been a disaster !!!

 

[Questions]

Have to blame Cameron for this shambles and not forcing the Brexiteers to put up a coherent exit plan for the country to consider properly.




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It was not Cameron's job to force a coherent exit plan from Brexit. The lack of it should have raised alarms bells with their campaign but so many didn't seem bothered by that slight oversight.