[TV] BBC Meat - A threat to our planet?

[beorhthelm]

True, but globally, only around 6% of soy is used for human food, which is mostly consumed in Asia, whereas a whopping 70% is used for animal agriculture. My point was that even when buying ‘locally sourced’ meat, you are most likely still contributing, even unwitting, to the huge problems caused by animal agriculture.

and my point is the contribution is small here. all the stats are heavy on global totals and averages, light on regional or country specifics. the other point is if we lost the meat, we'd replace it with protein from somewhere, notably protein rich soya. so in the UK we'd greatly increase consumption of soya by going all vegan. so the equation is a few % of soya and a lot of grass turned into meat, or a very large % of soya for direct consumption. this is a re-run of the bio-diesel push of last decade, where it was shown we would do so much better using plant oils, based on outliers of wast produce. lead to increase importation of palm oil for fuel, with associated consequences.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

and my point is the contribution is small here. all the stats are heavy on global totals and averages, light on regional or country specifics. the other point is if we lost the meat, we'd replace it with protein from somewhere, notably protein rich soya. so in the UK we'd greatly increase consumption of soya by going all vegan. so the equation is a few % of soya and a lot of grass turned into meat, or a very large % of soya for direct consumption. this is a re-run of the bio-diesel push of last decade, where it was shown we would do so much better using plant oils, based on outliers of wast produce. lead to increase importation of palm oil for fuel, with associated consequences.

If the entire country went vegan, yes the our soy import would most likely increase but the overall amount of soy needing to be grown, land usage, water usage and greenhouse gas output would be far less. Also worth mentioning that protein can be found in a vast array of vegetables, seeds and beans meaning soy wouldn’t be a necessity for a protein rich diet.

 

[beorhthelm]

Also worth mentioning that protein can be found in a vast array of vegetables, seeds and beans meaning soy wouldn’t be a necessity for a protein rich diet.

yeah, also worth mentioning peas, beans, chickpeas etc have half the protein of soy, which has half of meat. means eating a lot more mass for the same outcome. the 4-7:1 ratio of feed to meat highlights conversion of crappy foods into high quality food. its also worth mentioning the by products, fats and bone, that go into industrial product and process that'll need replacing with another source. whats the real cost and impact of all vegan?

 

[Milano]

I went to school with a girl who has now gone Vegan. She keeps on and on about it on Facebook. Whatever. However she has started getting very judgemental, verging on nasty, with anyone questioning her and not joining her. This has gone into overdrive since the BBC documentary.

I thought I’d point out to her today that her having 6 kids might also be adding to the problems of this planet, she’s gone very quiet now.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

We need less people is the problem.

I think at over a billion of each Chinese and Indians we don't need anymore of them for a few years.

 

[BN9 BHA]

I went to school with a girl who has now gone Vegan. She keeps on and on about it

No surprise there , many of them do.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

We need less people is the problem.

I think at over a billion of each Chinese and Indians we don't need anymore of them for a few years.

There's a case for leading by example, perhaps?

2018 C02 emissions (tonnes) per capita

UK 5.6

China 8.0

Aussies 16.2

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

yeah, also worth mentioning peas, beans, chickpeas etc have half the protein of soy, which has half of meat. means eating a lot more mass for the same outcome. the 4-7:1 ratio of feed to meat highlights conversion of crappy foods into high quality food. its also worth mentioning the by products, fats and bone, that go into industrial product and process that'll need replacing with another source. whats the real cost and impact of all vegan?

I’m sorry but you’re are incorrect. Per 100g, Soy beans contain 36g of protein. Hemp seeds contain 33g, pumpkin seeds contain 30g and lentils 26g. So hardly the ‘half’ you claim. All of the above provide perfectly adequate protein but we live in a time where we’ve convinced ourselves we need more protein than we actually do. Of course there is a ‘cost’ of a vegan diet but the science is very clear. The meat-based food system requires more energy, land, and water resources than the plant based diet. In this sense, the plant based diet is far more sustainable than the average western meat-based diet.

 

[knocky1]

We need less people is the problem.

Hopefully, you're going to lead by example.

 

[Machiavelli]

There's a case for leading by example, perhaps?

2018 C02 emissions (tonnes) per capita

UK 5.6

China 8.0

Aussies 16.2

Now, now. Why let facts get in the way of libertarian propaganda?

 

[beorhthelm]

I’m sorry but you’re are incorrect. Per 100g, Soy beans contain 36g of protein. Hemp seeds contain 33g, pumpkin seeds contain 30g and lentils 26g. So hardly the ‘half’ you claim. All of the above provide perfectly adequate protein but we live in a time where we’ve convinced ourselves we need more protein than we actually do. Of course there is a ‘cost’ of a vegan diet but the science is very clear. The meat-based food system requires more energy, land, and water resources than the plant based diet. In this sense, the plant based diet is far more sustainable than the average western meat-based diet.

may be i looked at wrong numbers, or you are quoting for raw measures? knock yourself out with uncooked soy bean and lentils. agree that we dont need as much protein as we consume, but you hadnt said that. its true meat-based food takes more resources, the argument here is that its not much more when you factor in use of local resources, i.e. grass, and the case for vegan is very over-stated.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

may be i looked at wrong numbers, or you are quoting for raw measures? knock yourself out with uncooked soy bean and lentils. agree that we dont need as much protein as we consume, but you hadnt said that. its true meat-based food takes more resources, the argument here is that its not much more when you factor in use of local resources, i.e. grass, and the case for vegan is very over-stated.

How is it overstated? Again, the science shows the exact opposite. Take water for instance. It has been calculated how much fresh water is needed for the production of all common protein products. For a kilo of beef, for example, 15,000 litres are needed. Pork uses up 6,000 litres of water per kilo and chicken 4,300 litres. 4,000 litres of water are needed for a kilo of pulses, while a kilo of soya beans uses up 'just' 2,100 litres. Per gram of protein, meat has a water footprint that is 1.5 to 6 times larger than that for pulses. There are also great differences between animal and plant products when the water use per calorie is calculated. Beef, for example, scores on average twenty times higher than grain or potatoes.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Hopefully, you're going to lead by example.

Well I have a gun, what's your address?

Might take me a while to get there, but if you're patient.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

There's a case for leading by example, perhaps?

2018 C02 emissions (tonnes) per capita

UK 5.6

China 8.0

Aussies 16.2

A pointless stat really.

Zero context.

 

[Mr Putdown]

chicken 4,300 litres.

Any idea how they come up with these numbers?

In commercial chicken rearing they are generally slaughtered at 56 days, weighing over 1kg which equates to a consumption of over 75 litres a day.

Seems a lot.

 

[beorhthelm]

How is it overstated? Again, the science shows the exact opposite. Take water for instance.

good example. the water consumption counts green water, that is from the environment, about 75% of water use globally. Livestock that grazes outdoors uses up rainwater that is naturally present in grass. there's lots of interesting stuff from Hoekstra (the source of your quoted article) about imported and virtual water. large numbers on water use come out that need context.

There are also great differences between animal and plant products when the water use per calorie is calculated. Beef, for example, scores on average twenty times higher than grain or potatoes.

true, but we dont consume meat for calories (usually prefering lean meats, trimming fat). making that comparison is misleading.

 

[knocky1]

good example. the water consumption counts green water, that is from the environment, about 75% of water use globally. Livestock that grazes outdoors uses up rainwater that is naturally present in grass. there's lots of interesting stuff from Hoekstra (the source of your quoted article) about imported and virtual water. large numbers on water use come out that need context.

In America 97% of cattle are grain fed and 3% grass fed. Give the 97% one bucket of grass and you have 100% grass fed cattle.

 

[beorhthelm]

In America 97% of cattle are grain fed and 3% grass fed. Give the 97% one bucket of grass and you have 100% grass fed cattle.

might need more than a bucket of grass .

i suspect that stat hides a lot of detail, what counts as "grain fed", 10%-100% grain?

 

[Bakero]

might need more than a bucket of grass .

i suspect that stat hides a lot of detail, what counts as "grain fed", 10%-100% grain?

In the US there is no longer an official definition of grass fed so it's all about marketing. Give'em a bit of grass, stick a grass-fed label on the pack and wait for the dollars to roll in.

 

[Hamilton]

Er, yes we should.

It's just a reality that we don't want to - or like to - hear.