Has already been dealt with. Population increase is already smaller than it was most of the second part of the last century and very little points at this trend stopping. In the Western world we've been in balance for a good while and I bet a lot of other countries will be looking to... decrease their populations (its not gonna be beautiful) since in the digital/automation era there is little correleation between the size of population and i.e. production output or military power.
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[TV] BBC Meat - A threat to our planet?
- Thread starter Wrong-Direction
- Start date
Has already been dealt with. Population increase is already smaller than it was most of the second part of the last century and very little points at this trend stopping. In the Western world we've been in balance for a good while and I bet a lot of other countries will be looking to... decrease their populations (its not gonna be beautiful) since in the digital/automation era there is little correleation between the size of population and i.e. production output or military power.
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
We live in Brighton but have found a really good local butcher (well local to Partridge Green) that sells really great cuts of meat and brilliant sausages. But I guess this is wrong in so many ways. Hmmmmmm, sausages.
Mr Putdown
Well-known member
Plenty of british meat is reared on former rain forest.
Greg Bobkin
Silver Seagull
- May 22, 2012
- 16,037
Mrs Bobkin and I watched it last night. There's a lot I question about the programme – and I certainly don't think I could (nor would I want to) go vegan (or 'plant-based' as they spin it these days) anytime soon, but it did get me thinking about what we consume. The health benefits are clearly there to see – for everyone, not just performance athletes – but it was a very simplistic and one-sided view of the situation, IMO.
I think I'll start by cutting down and doing meat-free days and see how it goes.
Some confusing comments on this thread. Chicken meat can be produced with low environmental impact and cost, but we'd have to reverse some of the improvements we have made in welfare standards. I'm still worried by the organic label - it seems to be confused with high welfare and high health!
Richy_Seagull
Well-known member
What did you question about the programme, out of interest?
Insel affe
HellBilly
BBC Meat - A threat to our planet?
Surely the worlds over and continuing to grow population is the main antagonising threat to the planet, and everything else is consequential.
Less people less meat, oil, plastic, etc, etc required.
We need a plague/ mass human extinction act or a bloody big war to save the planet, otherwise greed and stubbornness will prevail and nothing will change, each generation of leaders passing the buck on until it is too late, and we are damn close to that point.
Should we stop eating meat?
Personal choice, health and economical choices for everyone, each to be respected.
Surely the worlds over and continuing to grow population is the main antagonising threat to the planet, and everything else is consequential.
Less people less meat, oil, plastic, etc, etc required.
We need a plague/ mass human extinction act or a bloody big war to save the planet, otherwise greed and stubbornness will prevail and nothing will change, each generation of leaders passing the buck on until it is too late, and we are damn close to that point.
Should we stop eating meat?
Personal choice, health and economical choices for everyone, each to be respected.
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Dr Bandler
Well-known member
It is a shame that this debate often ends up in a simplistic "vegan vs badly produced meat" argument. This is often put out there to back up the vegan cause, as there is only one logical winner in that game, but it is not a correct analysis.
There are some good, insightful comments on this thread. Commercial meat production, with grain-feeding, antibiotics and hormones is unhealthy for the environment and for us. It is driven by population growth, demand for cheap food and profit. We are lucky that we can get our meat (and vegetables) from Tablehurst Farm at Forest Row. This is healthy for us, the land and the environment. Yes, this is more expensive but what is the realistic alternative? The whole biodynamic farming ethos is to live in harmony with the soil and planet.
Stopping eating meat altogether, while at the same time continuing deforestation in order to create more arable land, will undoubtedly continue the destruction of our climate and ecology.
Robert Peston did a documentary on the impact of population growth some while ago, and it was mind-blowing. There was a forecast that between now and 2050 the demand for basic commodities will become so high that they will become luxury items. Scary stuff.
There are some good, insightful comments on this thread. Commercial meat production, with grain-feeding, antibiotics and hormones is unhealthy for the environment and for us. It is driven by population growth, demand for cheap food and profit. We are lucky that we can get our meat (and vegetables) from Tablehurst Farm at Forest Row. This is healthy for us, the land and the environment. Yes, this is more expensive but what is the realistic alternative? The whole biodynamic farming ethos is to live in harmony with the soil and planet.
Stopping eating meat altogether, while at the same time continuing deforestation in order to create more arable land, will undoubtedly continue the destruction of our climate and ecology.
Robert Peston did a documentary on the impact of population growth some while ago, and it was mind-blowing. There was a forecast that between now and 2050 the demand for basic commodities will become so high that they will become luxury items. Scary stuff.
Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,867
Would be able to stop that if the arable land used inefficiently for meat production was turned in to producing soya based products. More importantly with a focus away from meat will stimulate a range of new products. The whole issue needs to be reviewed holistically to address climate change. If soya based products are worse than meat then of course they would have to go as well.
Wrong-Direction
Well-known member
- Mar 10, 2013
- 13,638
- Thread starter
- #50
I'd rather cut down on meet then hope for a plague tbh
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Insel affe
HellBilly
Not the point, the glaring problem is over population of the world, it is simply not sustainable. Ultimately wars will occur over ever dwindling resources, this will happen, and despite what a percentage of the population do by not eating meat, won't be enough to make a difference other circumstances and problems will occur and cause conflict.
Over population of the world needs addressing and hardly gets a mention, because that is a harder sell to the general public of every nation. Where would you start, who would tell you can't breed anymore, the poor, the country next door..... Not going to happen ever.....
So ultimately as I see it a major catastrophe is the only thing that can have that effect, be that a global war or a global disaster and the survivors start again.
If your a true environmentalist this is the only realistic option, because all alternatives are to little to late and can't/won't be implemented by greedy money men or religious and political leaders......
Just saying like......
bluenitsuj
Listen to me!!!
This. About time we adopted the now ended Chinese policy of one child per family.
we only have one child . . . do we win 5 fillet steaks?
Thats where we go, but also Plawhatch farm just up the road is good but very expensive. And you can always ask your butchers where the meat comes from also Waitrose butchers will / have to tell you where the meat has come from. Spend a few quid more on your Sunday joint and you will notice the difference, more taste, less watery fat stuff coming out and less shrinkage in the joint.
I am quite aware that not everyone can afford this and TBH nor can I, but just having quality meat twice a week makes the budget stretch...a good joint will do at least 3 days meal as well.
You can also have quality Sausages and burgers it does not have to be Ear holes, eye holes and arse ols...
whats wrong with "Ear holes, eye holes and arse ols..." - if you're going to eat meat then you should be prepared to eat it all and not waste an animal. Big problem in this country is that the supermarkets and the consumers will only pay for a limited range of cuts and the rest is basically waste.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Overpopulation of the world is a myth. Women are having fewer children now than at any time in history. Many don't have children at all due to education and wanting careers.
It appears there are more people on the earth at the moment because people are living longer, but even that has levelled out.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/the-overpopulation-myth
Insel affe
HellBilly
Right back at ya buddy....
https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/population-environment
We could do this all day, both valid arguments, I believe that ultimately war and famine and resources will be our downfall, but hopefully the strong survive and not just the rich and powerful, and we can build again.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Correct. The world's population is predicted to get to 11bn by 2100 mainly through adults living longer. The birth rate is down to just above 2 children per woman (from 5 in the 1950's) and has been at that level for a while, mainly because of better access to education, basic health and contraception worldwide.
Insel affe
HellBilly
Hang on the worlds population is now roughly 7.7 billion, so if it is predicted to reach 11 billion by 2100 it is still going up or am I missing something and still having an effect on resources....
Dr Bandler
Well-known member
I like a lot of your thoughtful posts, but cant go along with this one. That article is from 2010, and by someone I have never heard of, who is trying to debunk the opinions of Stephen Hawking and David Attenborough, who are credible sources of opinion. The article also says that the rate of growth is slowing, not that the world population had stopped growing, and that it is increasing by 70 million per year. That is not very comforting.
Also, please see this for some sobering thoughts - https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
World population will therefore continue to grow in the 21st century, but at a much slower rate compared to the recent past. World population has doubled (100% increase) in 40 years from 1959 (3 billion) to 1999 (6 billion). It is now estimated that it will take another nearly 40 years to increase by another 50% to become 9 billion by 2037.
The latest world population projections indicate that world population will reach 10 billion persons in the year 2057.
I am sure you are concerned when you see the sprawl of urban African cities encroaching more and more on the habitat of big game, and when rain forest is cut down for timber and farming. I really, honestly believe that population growth and consumption is the problem. Sadly, whatever we agree on, we as a global community have not got to grips with issues like this, and show no sign of doing so.