Barcelona: Van hits crowds on Ramblas tourist area

[carlzeiss]

How is opposing an extremely right-wing ideology a right wing view? Why do the left support them, is it just because they are, at present, a minority? Surely liberals that believe in women's rights and gay rights would find Islam offensive.

It isn’t just young people who have turned to Labour. Muslims have too
Miqdaad Versi

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/12/muslims-turned-to-labour-rejected-tory-party

 

[Titanic]

Times reading Tory party voter and member.

(I doubt [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is to the 'right' of me, but there is quite a bit of room on the spectrum, so it is not impossible!)

If there is any doubt about my 'politics'... ask Ernest

 

[pastafarian]

Utter bollocks.

I have been "removed" from the Brexit thread twice by mods and never been told why.......as I am currently.

We both know how the cycle of debate works on that thread, and it is usually spiky, as you would expect on any subject people feel strongly about.

If it was about personal abuse I would expect to be banned from posting on NSC outright, as would most posters on there.......for example, your most recent contribution to the thread was to label a poster whose views you disagree with as "REALLY stupid".

So yes bias and/or censorship exists on NSC.

For the record, I don't care if I am removed from threads due to bias, NSC is just a football fan website for BHA fans to contribute to more no less, so I have absolutely no beef with how it's run. NSC is not a public service so it can be as biased as it wants to be........which is why its absolutely unlike the BBC.

Banned from the Brexit thread again........you really are a naughty boy.
Is it really beyond some of the mods to say they have removed X from a thread and why or say they have moved a thread to the other stuff and why,some do say they have done this, but it doesnt appear all are capable.
Seems a bit rude to chuck someone off a thread and not even have the politeness to tell them why.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

How is opposing an extremely right-wing ideology a right wing view? Why do the left support them, is it just because they are, at present, a minority? Surely liberals that believe in women's rights and gay rights would find Islam offensive.

The actual Left don't support them for this very reason. It is the Left who continually opposed the social conservatism and control of religion. What you are calling the left are actually middle class entryists. They do very well out of capitalism and try to distract by virtue signaling at every opportunity. They give very little thought to the inconsistency of condemning far right groups whilst championing rights of religions that are even further to the right. They focus on the colour of someone's skin above all else. How else can one rationalize the continual calls for inclusion of religion which by its very nature is non inclusive. I have no hesitation in condemning intolerance whether that be from far right Nazi groups, Islam or Christianity and I am appalled that what masquerades as the left these days gives a free pass to anti gay, anti female, anti scemitic ideology all in the name of making people feel better about themselves.

 

[looney]

There's no mandate on here to move any particular flavour of thread.

I didn't even know this had been moved because my default view in Tapatalk shows all new threads and doesn't differentiate between NSC's sub-forums. It's only because I've read posts about the thread being moved that I now know. (I'm also on holiday so largely off NSC right now)

There probably is a left-wing bias amongst the moderating team. I might well be the most right-wing moderator, although I'm not too far from the centre at all. Maybe that left-wing bias does lead to over-moderation of right-wing posts, but I'm not entirely sure.

All I can say is that I don't tend to open up many threads myself because I just know what they will contain and I have no interest in getting involved in some of what people try to pass as debate on certain issues.

I'd like NSC to be available to discuss high profile news stories such as this horrific attack but they do seem to bring out the worst in many people and it becomes very difficult to deal with.

The fact so many on here can reference moderators political slants by their moderating actions should be a concern, or clue.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Is there any reason why they would attack Spain specifically?

Aside from being a Western country involved in the 'war on terror' and Al-Qaeda being behind the Madrid attacks in 2004, the fact that basically much of modern day Spain was once occupied by The Moors for hundreds of years until the middle ages from 711AD when Tariq ibn-Ziyad invaded, is no coincidence. Many place names in Spain are derived from Arabic names. You'll see plenty of architecture etc left over from then to this day - The Alhambra Palace in Granada probably being the most famous example. Like myself, I'm sure they'll be many people on here who've visited it down the years it's a world heritage site.

 

[soistes]

How is opposing an extremely right-wing ideology a right wing view? Why do the left support them, is it just because they are, at present, a minority? Surely liberals that believe in women's rights and gay rights would find Islam offensive.

I don't think it's racist or indeed right wing to be opposed to Islam as an ideology. I would count myself as left-wing and on some topics I'd probably be seen by some on here as extremely left-wing. However I find Islam reprehensible as a belief system in most of its aspects, and I would count myself as Islamophobic in the literal sense (phobia = fear), because I am somewhat scared of many of the manifestations of Islam (last night's attacks included). I would add that I have similar objections to all other religions when they go further that just a simple belief in a deity (daft, but not in itself harmful) to trying to impose irrational rules and prescriptions (supposedly ordained by that deity) on other people.
I accept that most Muslims are simply people who have grown up in a particular culture which includes Islam as a social norm, which one needs to adopt in order to 'fit in' and who do not have the intellectual or personal courage or impetus to reject an irrational world view. I think their rights to believe this nonsense should be respected (ditto with christians, Jews, Hindus and others with their brands of religious nonsense) as long as they don't impose it on others.
The problem we have at the moment is that it's close to impossible to distinguish who, among Muslim communities, is likely to go further than this and want to 'practise' their world view with violent acts or impose it on others. But we're getting to the point where we may need to strike a new balance between the right to practice these belief systems on the one hand and protecting the broader population from being oppressed or terrorised on the other. It's not helpful, in my view, to label anyone who raises this issue openly as racist or right wing (even though some people raising it may be).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[daveybgtt]

How is opposing an extremely right-wing ideology a right wing view? Why do the left support them, is it just because they are, at present, a minority? Surely liberals that believe in women's rights and gay rights would find Islam offensive.

Give up, there is no reasoning with the liberal hive mind.

All they are interested in is feeling smugly superior to those they deem "lesser" individuals, assuming anyone who is opposed to attacks such as this are drooling neanderthals who read the sun and do manual labour.

 

[looney]

Times reading Tory party voter and member.

(I doubt [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is to the 'right' of me, but there is quite a bit of room on the spectrum, so it is not impossible!)

If there is any doubt about my 'politics'... ask Ernest

I dont think the problem is mods per see, its certain ones who are abusing their pannels unknowingly or other. If you asked those complaining to put down names I bet the same names would shine through.

 

[daveinprague]

How is opposing an extremely right-wing ideology a right wing view? Why do the left support them, is it just because they are, at present, a minority? Surely liberals that believe in women's rights and gay rights would find Islam offensive.

The countries constitution supports 'them'. You know, British law.

 

[Buzzer]

The countries constitution supports 'them'. You know, British law.

There is no British constitution and there is no British law.

 

[Commander]

Aside from being a Western country involved in the 'war on terror' and Al-Qaeda being behind the Madrid attacks in 2004, the fact that basically much of modern day Spain was once occupied by The Moors for hundreds of years until the middle ages from 711AD when Tariq ibn-Ziyad invaded, is no coincidence. Many place names in Spain are derived from Arabic names. You'll see plenty of architecture etc left over from then to this day - The Alhambra Palace in Granada probably being the most famous example. Like myself, I'm sure they'll be many people on here who've visited it down the years it's a world heritage site.

Even so, you'd think there would be far more 'legitimate' targets than Spain, and least of all Barcelona, who generally want nothing to do with Spain.

It's a strange move by IS, because as far as I know Spain haven't been bombing Syria and getting too involved in the Middle East in general in recent times, have they? (I could well be wrong here, but they definitely haven't been one of the main aggressors). It seems to send the message that they'll attack anyone who's 'Western', regardless of their foreign policy, in which case we might as well carry on kicking the shit out of them in the Middle East as they'll still attack us even if we stop. It just seems like a bit of a propaganda own goal to me. They could wreak havoc on the streets of London and New York and say 'Look at Spain, they're not getting involved in the Middle East so we're leaving them alone. Get your country out of our lands and we'll leave you alone too".

 

[ManOfSussex]

Even so, you'd think there would be far more 'legitimate' targets than Spain, and least of all Barcelona, who generally want nothing to do with Spain.

It's a strange move by IS, because as far as I know Spain haven't been bombing Syria and getting too involved in the Middle East in general in recent times, have they? (I could well be wrong here, but they definitely haven't been one of the main aggressors). It seems to send the message that they'll attack anyone who's 'Western', regardless of their foreign policy, in which case we might as well carry on kicking the shit out of them in the Middle East as they'll still attack us even if we stop. It just seems like a bit of a propaganda own goal to me. They could wreak havoc on the streets of London and New York and say 'Look at Spain, they're not getting involved in the Middle East so we're leaving them alone. Get your country out of our lands and we'll leave you alone too".

Any country is a target frankly and one with a high profile, large tourist population like Spain in particular I guess. Spain were involved in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, are a NATO member and has the Moorish history element which was talked about at the time of the Madrid bombings.

 

[essbee1]

Even so, you'd think there would be far more 'legitimate' targets than Spain, and least of all Barcelona, who generally want nothing to do with Spain.

It's a strange move by IS, because as far as I know Spain haven't been bombing Syria and getting too involved in the Middle East in general in recent times, have they? (I could well be wrong here, but they definitely haven't been one of the main aggressors). It seems to send the message that they'll attack anyone who's 'Western', regardless of their foreign policy, in which case we might as well carry on kicking the shit out of them in the Middle East as they'll still attack us even if we stop. It just seems like a bit of a propaganda own goal to me. They could wreak havoc on the streets of London and New York and say 'Look at Spain, they're not getting involved in the Middle East so we're leaving them alone. Get your country out of our lands and we'll leave you alone too".

They've had plenty of opportunities to present a propaganda goal (as opposed to own goal) - but seem to thick to work it out.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Morning all.

I very rarely look at NSC in the evening (ie in my own time ) so was not aware until this morning that this thread had been moved (then moved back). I can see in the moderating part of the site who did move it, of course, but don't think it really matters. It was moved because the moderator in question saw that it was descending into nastiness, and didn't have time to sort through individual posts, so moved the whole thing.

On the 'bias' thing, from my own (personal) position.

Each mod on here is NOT just 'a mod'. Each is a long-standing poster AND a mod.

My views are my own, and if anyone thinks that giving up time to help NSC tick along automatically disqualifies me from having an opinion on whether Nigel Farage is a hypocrite or Peter Smith was a better full back than Russell Bromage, they can suck my balls.

I'm 99% certain that I've only ever taken moderating action on the type of issue being knocked about here, once - when I issued someone a month ban fairly recently for posting a long list of outright lies about 'muslim mayors' and such-like, cut and paste from some right-wing propaganda site.

FWIW I have a personal rule that if I have become involved in a debate (as I did early on in this thread) then I deliberately leave it to others to moderate. You can't referee your own arguments.

 

[daveinprague]

There is no British constitution and there is no British law.

Thought we had laws protecting freedom of religion?

 

[carlzeiss]

Is there any reason why they would attack Spain specifically?

Cheap travel from North Africa

[yt]KK-0DbOG3zk[/YT]

 

[Weatherman]

How is opposing an extremely right-wing ideology a right wing view? Why do the left support them, is it just because they are, at present, a minority? Surely liberals that believe in women's rights and gay rights would find Islam offensive.

I also share your frustration and incredulation at how the progressive Liberalists support all of this crap yet despise their own culture.
As for dealing with the increasing terrorism threat well, nothing's going to happen. This destabilising and mongrolising of Europe has been in the planning for many decades by the taking over of former communist bloc countries and the opening of borders.. Create a situation in the middle East then flood us with 'refugees' who are free to roam wherever they like with no scrutiny or control. Block any criticism of what's happening by using surveillance of internet posts and threatening any 'anti' posters with prison while allowing radical muslims the freedom to preach and spout hate against Europeans. Brainwash students in to believing that being a white loyalist is a sin and you have a violent movement like ANTIFA which ironically is more Fascist in it's actions than any nationalist group..
Unless more people stop shrugging their shoulders and actually speak up against what is being imposed on us then the future looks bleak for our children and grandchildren.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think the answer to the "Why would they attack Spain / Sweden / Manchester / Brussels / London?" questions are much more straightforward than some seem to suggest.

All this 'why does ISIS decide this?" and "surely for propaganda they should avoid that?" stuff .

Surely it just comes down to logistics / opportunity / familiarity?

The Brussels (and Paris) attackers were from Belgium.
The London bombers were from up the road in Luton.
The Manchester Arena bomber was from Manchester.
The Stockholm attacker was Swedish.

I honestly doubt there is much (any?) central co-ordination of any of this shit. Just a general directive to their followers / sympathisers to cause carnage wherever and whenever they can. So they commit these atrocities in places they know.

No?

 

[Hillian1]

I think the answer to the "Why would they attack Spain / Sweden / Manchester / Brussels / London?" questions are much more straightforward than some seem to suggest.

All this 'why does ISIS decide this?" and "surely for propaganda they should avoid that?" stuff .

Surely it just comes down to logistics / opportunity / familiarity?

The Brussels (and Paris) attackers were from Belgium.
The London bombers were from up the road in Luton.
The Manchester Arena bomber was from Manchester.
The Stockholm attacker was Swedish.

I honestly doubt there is much (any?) central co-ordination of any of this shit. Just a general directive to their followers / sympathisers to cause carnage wherever and whenever they can. So they commit these atrocities in places they know.

No?

They all have one thing in common mind.