Ban Fox Hunting Forever

[caz99]

I'm sorry caz I can't let you get away with all of that. If you eat meat you're involved in cruelty to animals. Fact. No amount of semantic wriggling and saying "it's not the same" can deny it, at the end of the day there is a dead animal and a happy human. Foie Gras for example requires that a steel feeding tube is rammed down a goose's throat and it's force-fed corn until it dies, just so some one can go "mmmm, that was nice". That to my mind is equally as cruel as ripping a fox to shreds. And the animal doesn't know (or care) if it was killed for food or fun. The thing is that cruelty to food animals happens in private and because it's such a low-level, routine, humdrum form of cruelty that happens to millions of animals a year it doesn't attract nearly as much publicity as the high-profile death of few foxes.

sorry don't agree, i don't red meat and i don't eat pompus crap either not saying its any better. but once again your missing the point about hunting what we are saying is its the enjoyment these people get out of it. most people eat meat yes but wouldn't necessarily go chasing the chickens or cows round the countryside then rip them up and bring them home for dinner that night.

no one is denying that in some peoples view eating meat is cruel, however stop side stepping the issue of what we are talking about hunting with horses and hounds for fun. if your saying that we should let it continue just cos the majority of the country eat meat i think thats a crap arguement.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I'm glad you don't eat pompous crap. Not even the countryfolk do that.

I think there are strong moral similarities between fox-hunting and meat-eating. I'm a veggie and i think fox-hunting ought to be destroyed.
The issues are entwined and it's not side-stepping, but introducing a different element to the debate.

 

[looney]

Actually, I will. At no stage did I claim to be a do gooder - I am as guilty as everyone else of not doing anything to help.



Views like that are the reason there are so many problems in the world. I'm alright Jack - sod the rest of you.

Guess what pal, people who consider themselves guilty for acts they are not directly responsible for are part of the biggest problem in the world.


I am not Guilty do you hear me? No more than every Muslim is guilty of Terrorism.


You have become the thing you most hate, a blind bigot unable to differenciate between, actions and responsibility.

 

[looney]

If the veggies here are moral objectors to meat would they impose it on everyone given the oppertunity? Or not just yet?

 

[caz99]

I'm glad you don't eat pompous crap. Not even the countryfolk do that.

I think there are strong moral similarities between fox-hunting and meat-eating. I'm a veggie and i think fox-hunting ought to be destroyed.
The issues are entwined and it's not side-stepping, but introducing a different element to the debate.

exactly similarities but we are talking about a blood sport where people hunt things for fun and enjoyment.

i agree to some people eating meat is cruel and thats where the similarities end.

 

[Brovion]

I'm glad you don't eat pompous crap. Not even the countryfolk do that.

I think there are strong moral similarities between fox-hunting and meat-eating. I'm a veggie and i think fox-hunting ought to be destroyed.
The issues are entwined and it's not side-stepping, but introducing a different element to the debate.

Well said. I think it's YOU caz who has consistently missed the point all the way through this thread. No one is denying that hunting foxes with a pack dogs is anything other than a throwback to the stone age. The question is why does that get such a high profile when other, as bad, forms of animal cruelty are just accepted? Either you want to see cruelty to animals eradicated or you don't, it's not as simple as saying "hunting with dogs is bad but everything else is ok" which seems to be your viewpoint. Where do you want to draw the line?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Well said. I think it's YOU caz who has consistently missed the point all the way through this thread. No one is denying that hunting foxes with a pack dogs is anything other than a throwback to the stone age. The question is why does that get such a high profile when other, as bad, forms of animal cruelty are just accepted? Either you want to see cruelty to animals eradicated or you don't, it's not as simple as saying "hunting with dogs is bad but everything else is ok" which seems to be your viewpoint. Where do you want to draw the line?

Which was the point I was trying to make above.

I do eat meat, but I have no problem with people who don't. The issue with Vegetarianism and Carnivors is the extremist argument. I once had the discussion which actually got heated about "meat is murder" campaign. Unfortunately, the other person could not see anyone's point of view apart from her own and I was branded a facist who was responsible for millions of animals dying because I ate meat. ( This discussion is degenerating into this a bit)

Whilst I think vegetarianism is a laudible doctrine to live your life by, I do not think that in my lifetime preferences will change.

My main concern in Animal Wefare is the use of laboratory animals for cosmetic testing. I think in a civilised society this is totally and absolutely abhorent to any right minded individual. Testing new medication on animals however is another area which although I am exremely uncomfortable with, I believe it to be a necessity.

 

[caz99]

Which was the point I was trying to make above.

I do eat meat, but I have no problem with people who don't. The issue with Vegetarianism and Carnivors is the extremist argument. I once had the discussion which actually got heated about "meat is murder" campaign. Unfortunately, the other person could not see anyone's point of view apart from her own and I was branded a facist who was responsible for millions of animals dying because I ate meat. ( This discussion is degenerating into this a bit)

Whilst I think vegetarianism is a laudible doctrine to live your life by, I do not think that in my lifetime preferences will change.

My main concern in Animal Wefare is the use of laboratory animals for cosmetic testing. I think in a civilised society this is totally and absolutely abhorent to any right minded individual. Testing new medication on animals however is another area which although I am exremely uncomfortable with, I believe it to be a necessity.

thank you at least what i have been trying to say constantly moving the argument away from the issue at hand. why doesnt somone put up a decent argument as to why we should keep fox hunting. i also think this is turning into a discussion that i am wrong cos i eat chicken and brovian is holyer than tho cos he doesn't therefore his view on fox hunting must be accepted. i have already admitted to being a hypocrite cos i eat meat not sure what esle i can say.

i agree other forms of animal cruelty should be banned like i said before bullfighting, cock fighting, dog fighting still happens, pheasant shooting which i hear in the season as i work in arundel on the duke of norfolks grounds. organised animal sports that are cruel and people love to watch. we need to move with the times and change these out of date 'traditions'

i don't ever think your going to win the meat v veggie debate and your not going to pass a law saying everyone who thinks blood sports are cruel should not be eating meat.

how would you ever have survived in our history when some of the time meat eating was all there was for people to survive.

 

[Meade's Ball]

how would you ever have survived in our history when some of the time meat eating was all there was for people to survive.

We change. Of course i couldn't have afforded to have any moral debate on this in times gone by. But now, science allows me the opportunity and the option.
I doubt i'll see the end of meat-eating in my lifetime either and, to be honest, i don't care that much. I can only really control what i do and i'm not in the business of battering people with my opinions (any more). But the debate remains an interesting one.

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

i agree other forms of animal cruelty should be banned like i said before bullfighting, cock fighting, dog fighting still happens, pheasant shooting which i hear in the season as i work in arundel on the duke of norfolks grounds. organised animal sports that are cruel and people love to watch. we need to move with the times and change these out of date 'traditions'.

Just out of interest, do you think fishing should be banned?

 

[Dave the OAP]

i'm not in the business of battering people with my opinions (any more). But the debate remains an interesting one.


Ah but conversely, as with most arguments this is the inherrant problem. If you believe that "meat is murder" then how can you see someone's opposite opinion?

I think the discussion here amply shows that even on a football message board with like minded fans, opinions are polorised on many issues. Imagine yourself as Tony Blair who has a whole country ( and World) out there to convince if his decisions in Government are correct or not. Even when those decisions are life and death to people who have to uphold them.

I wouldn't have his job for all the tea in China. How the poor sod sleeps at night I have no idea

 

[Dave the OAP]

SOT

I actually think this is the next step in the progression....Fox Hunting..Stag Hunting...Fishing...Pheasant Shooting...French baiting....

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

French baiting....

Now there is an issue that I would have to make a stand on. It may be cruel, but it's TRADITIONAL.

 

[caz99]

Just out of interest, do you think fishing should be banned?

yes although i don't claim to know much about it

 

[Meade's Ball]

i'm not in the business of battering people with my opinions (any more). But the debate remains an interesting one.


Ah but conversely, as with most arguments this is the inherrant problem. If you believe that "meat is murder" then how can you see someone's opposite opinion?

I think the discussion here amply shows that even on a football message board with like minded fans, opinions are polorised on many issues. Imagine yourself as Tony Blair who has a whole country ( and World) out there to convince if his decisions in Government are correct or not. Even when those decisions are life and death to people who have to uphold them.

I wouldn't have his job for all the tea in China. How the poor sod sleeps at night I have no idea

I've learned to put myself in other people's shoes. Some are mightily uncomfortable, making my heels bleed and my toes go purple. Some are like an extra layer of skin and uncommonly familiar to something inside me that i'd rather not recognise.

I think it's necessary, when aiming for the upper echelons of politics, to have a messianic self-opinion. To be so sure that what you are doing is RIGHT and that all should follow, waiting to be crucified in one way or another. I'd not want to do it either. Even if i had the world's interests at heart.

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

yes although i don't claim to know much about it

Even though it is something that hundreds of thousands of people enjoy doing, that doesn't really affect your life in any way? I mean, how often do you actually sit at home and think "God, those poor fish, how many of them will suffer today".

 

[Soul Finger]

What Aids "crisis"? The gay plague? Let the queers die!

'Gay Plague'. You absolutely 100% f***ing retard.

 

[caz99]

Even though it is something that hundreds of thousands of people enjoy doing, that doesn't really affect your life in any way? I mean, how often do you actually sit at home and think "God, those poor fish, how many of them will suffer today".

sorry but your getting a bit pathetic.

i don't agree with it but like i said i admit to not knowing much about it.

 

[Set of Tracksuits]

sorry but your getting a bit pathetic.

No, it's not pathetic. The point I was getting to is that people are up in arms about a subject that they know very little about and doesn't actually affect them in their daily lives. You said yourself that you know very little about fishing, yet you want it banned. Why?

The media have helped to stir the debate up into a class-conflict issue (see numerous anti-"toffs" posts yesterday) when in fact many of the people involved are just working people. Everyone loves getting one over on the "ruling classes", so everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

The ban is only happening because the Labour leadership want to throw a bone to their own backbenchers who could make their lives difficult in the build-up to an election.

 

[caz99]

how many bloody times its nothing to do with class at all. and i know enough about fox hunting from both sides to know that my view is to ban it.

sudan. aids, poverty iraq doesnt affect my daily life either. however i am not arrogant enough to ignore it what goes on outside my own back yard either.

if we all had that attitude who knows what state we would end up in.