[Politics] Assisted dying

[dazzer6666]

Yes! I've stayed out of this thread as I have very strong feelings on this issue which I know others don't share. I was unequivocally in favour and I never heard a single convincing argument against it. Not one. I'm putting this thread on ignore now as I don't want to get into an argument with other people who, whilst they're wrong, probably hold their own views equally strongly.

Really really sorry it was too late for you Tony.

Just because YOU haven’t been convinced, it doesn’t mean everyone not sharing your view is wrong.

 

[The Clamp]

It’s not legal yet.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Nor should it happen quickly

I'm just about on the side for it, but we need to go slowly on this and make sure it's done properly with all the checks in place before it's an option

Part of the bill states that if the checks are not in place, it will go ahead in 2 years' time regardless.

The checks can't be in place by then, if ever. How are two doctors going to get to know the person concerned, and his or her family, well enough to assess whether the person has been coerced? It's supposed to be done within three weeks. The most we can hope for as the doctor's own patient is to get a telephone appointment within three weeks; how is a stranger going to get such a lengthy series of consultations?

 

[GT49er]

Well done Parliament. Right decision. End of my contribution to, or participation in, this thread.

 

[clapham_gull]

After what I've been though in the last few years many (who know me) are surprised that I'm not in support currently and have done a lot of thinking about it.

You can't just think of your own experiences when trying to form an opinion. That's very dangerous.

I may change my mind and respect those who support it.

 

[BrightonCottager]

I've not read any of the previous posts. I'm in favour of being able to make an informed choice about assisted dying.

I was reflecting to MrsBC earlier that before my mum's dementia kicked in and she was living alone and coping, she would frequently say she just wanted to 'pop off' (die, not fart). Now she's in a care home and dementia is full-on, she never says that. Which mum do I believe?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

May have been posted before, but such an emotive personal issue should it not have been a UK referendum and not left to 650 MP,s ?

 

[Professor Plum]

While I've never been a huge fan of Starmer, I respect him allowing a free vote, I expect the results will vary on all sides of Parliament from every party.

It’s a conscience issue so will nearly always be a free vote. Also, it’s a private member's bill, from an MP winning the ballot, and the government traditionally doesn’t take a position until the 2nd reading.

As for the issue itself, to me it’s a no-brainer to allow assisted dying. The key element however isn’t the act itself but the safeguards put in place to ensure the dying person hasn’t come under external pressure. These details will come out in the committee stage and will have to be voted through, no doubt with various amendments attached.

 

[Professor Plum]

May have been posted before, but such an emotive personal issue should it not have been a UK referendum and not left to 650 MP,s ?

IMO it’s because it’s such a personal emotive issue that it’s best left to MPs.

 

[ROSM]

It’s a conscience issue so will nearly always be a free vote. Also, it’s a private member's bill, from an MP winning the ballot, and the government traditionally doesn’t take a position until the 2nd reading.

As for the issue itself, to me it’s a no-brainer to allow assisted dying. The key element however isn’t the act itself but the safeguards put in place to ensure the dying person hasn’t come under external pressure. These details will come out in the committee stage and will have to be voted through, no doubt with various amendments attached.

I believe today was the second reading. It now goes to committee with no whip interference. After that it returns to the Commons and then the lords

 

[alanfp]

May have been posted before, but such an emotive personal issue should it not have been a UK referendum and not left to 650 MP,s ?

Would have been 73% in favour ( not 54%) according to Yougov poll and countless other polls over the last few years.

 

[jackalbion]

It’s a conscience issue so will nearly always be a free vote. Also, it’s a private member's bill, from an MP winning the ballot, and the government traditionally doesn’t take a position until the 2nd reading.

As for the issue itself, to me it’s a no-brainer to allow assisted dying. The key element however isn’t the act itself but the safeguards put in place to ensure the dying person hasn’t come under external pressure. These details will come out in the committee stage and will have to be voted through, no doubt with various amendments attached.

For me, I was quite conflicted, until today, I came round to it. It’s a rights issue, and for me the right decision was made, people deserve the choice to die with dignity. It’s a choice, and a personally I want to live forever, but if people don’t, let them.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

Disabled Person: Hello there, British State. I'm disabled and need some support, with which I could live a dignified and fulfilling life.
British State: Hi there Disabled Person. Sorry, we don't have the budget to offer you the support you need for a dignified and fulfilling life. Can we interest you in a dignified death instead?

This is a dark day.

 

[Professor Plum]

Disabled Person: Hello there, British State. I'm disabled and need some support, with which I could live a dignified and fulfilling life.
British State: Hi there Disabled Person. Sorry, we don't have the budget to offer you the support you need for a dignified and fulfilling life. Can we interest you in a dignified death instead?

This is a dark day.

That’s a travesty of the bill, and the careful debate that is surrounding it. But I agree with your first part. Not sure if you’re disabled yourself or being rhetorical.

The bill is for people who are terminally ill with only a short time to live, who want to be able to manage their own death instead of dying in worsening pain and distress. But yes, let’s improve life for disabled people, who are usually in a quite different category.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

I remember when WCAs were introduced by the last Labour government. They promised they were there to help the long-term sick and disabled, not punish them.

And yet they've been used as a weapon of austerity ever since. This will be no different, eventually.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

May have been posted before, but such an emotive personal issue should it not have been a UK referendum and not left to 650 MP,s ?

No. This is why we elect MPs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I've not read any of the previous posts. I'm in favour of being able to make an informed choice about assisted dying.

I was reflecting to MrsBC earlier that before my mum's dementia kicked in and she was living alone and coping, she would frequently say she just wanted to 'pop off' (die, not fart). Now she's in a care home and dementia is full-on, she never says that. Which mum do I believe?

Therein lies a problem.
At the moment this Bill is only for cancer patients with a prognosis of less than 6 months to live. It’s not for MND, nor dementia nor any other long term illness.
How long before it is tweaked, softened or even encouraged?

It is also wrapped up cosily as assisted dying, not assisted suicide, as suicide still has a stigma. I wonder if a Coroner’s Court will have to convene?

 

[alanfp]

At the moment this Bill is only for cancer patients with a prognosis of less than 6 months to live. It’s not for MND, nor dementia nor any other long term illness.

Just to clarify things here (as it's important) that isn't correct.

This (below) is from the House of Commons library:

The broad aim of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill is to allow adults aged 18 and over, who have mental capacity, are terminally ill and are in the final six months of their life, to request assistance from a doctor to end their life.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

May have been posted before, but such an emotive personal issue should it not have been a UK referendum and not left to 650 MP,s ?

No. because MPs are there to think about these things, and apparently it was a sensible grown up debate. With a referendum there is the danger of people turning up and voting on an eeny meeny miney mo basis.

 

[Bruno’s Wig]

I’m a nurse with lots of experience of working with terminally ill people. I’ve seen so much pain and suffering and welcome this. But there needs to be very strict guidelines too so it’s not abused.