[Albion] Article - Brighton’s Problems – Coaching or Poor Squad?

[seagullwedgee]

Have you ever watched us train or are you just assuming how we are being coached?

The stats suggest our playing style is bringing almost the most shots for and fewest shots against in the whole league. So let's give the coach a little more credit.

And there is the ENTIRE point.

Our conversion at one end is very poor, which suggests there is a lot missing in our offensive coaching. Think what Darren Ferguson has done for DCL, for example.

And our set piece concession at the other end is also appalling, the pundits are pulling it to bits, and you can see quite clearly on your own freeze frame video that the zonal defence is porous. And we’re letting easy shots get off this season, Ryan averaging 1.5 saves per game is horrendous.

Our transition play is quite slick, but at both ends the organisation and finesse is missing. The players are good enough, it requires specialist coaching input. And we’ve got 2 defenders as coaches (Bruno and GP) and two bag carriers in Benny & Bjorn.

The hypothesis of this entire thread was “are the players not good enough, or is specialist coaching lacking”. I think it’s the latter, and have provided dozens of examples in this thread. You, on the other hand, appear to have completely missed the point of the thread, and have concluded that ‘we should give them all a break’. There are other threads for that. This thread is a technical analytical assessment of the competence and impact of out technical coaching.

 

[Harold]

Spot on SW.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

And there is the ENTIRE point.

Our conversion at one end is very poor, which suggests there is a lot missing in our offensive coaching. Think what Darren Ferguson has done for DCL, for example.

And our set piece concession at the other end is also appalling, the pundits are pulling it to bits, and you can see quite clearly on your own freeze frame video that the zonal defence is porous. And we’re letting easy shots get off this season, Ryan averaging 1.5 saves per game is horrendous.

Our transition play is quite slick, but at both ends the organisation and finesse is missing. The players are good enough, it requires specialist coaching input. And we’ve got 2 defenders as coaches (Bruno and GP) and two bag carriers in Benny & Bjorn.

The hypothesis of this entire thread was “are the players not good enough, or is specialist coaching lacking”. I think it’s the latter, and have provided dozens of examples in this thread. You, on the other hand, appear to have completely missed the point of the thread, and have concluded that ‘we should give them all a break’. There are other threads for that. This thread is a technical analytical assessment of the competence and impact of out technical coaching.

The players are good enough and the coaching is fine.

We have several new players who need time to settle coupled with the youngest team in the league.

Maupay is currently scoring 1 in 2 and Welbeck looks like he will get goals. Lallana has admitted he is relearning how to play in a more advanced position and our captain has missed almost half the season.

Yes, occasionally we over play in the final 3rd, but that will come.

Sometimes you just need to be patient.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

And there is the ENTIRE point.

Our conversion at one end is very poor, which suggests there is a lot missing in our offensive coaching. Think what Darren Ferguson has done for DCL, for example.

And our set piece concession at the other end is also appalling, the pundits are pulling it to bits, and you can see quite clearly on your own freeze frame video that the zonal defence is porous. And we’re letting easy shots get off this season, Ryan averaging 1.5 saves per game is horrendous.

Our transition play is quite slick, but at both ends the organisation and finesse is missing. The players are good enough, it requires specialist coaching input. And we’ve got 2 defenders as coaches (Bruno and GP) and two bag carriers in Benny & Bjorn.

The hypothesis of this entire thread was “are the players not good enough, or is specialist coaching lacking”. I think it’s the latter, and have provided dozens of examples in this thread. You, on the other hand, appear to have completely missed the point of the thread, and have concluded that ‘we should give them all a break’. There are other threads for that. This thread is a technical analytical assessment of the competence and impact of out technical coaching.

0h how I would love to have a technical, analytical discussion about our tactics, play and philosophy, there is so much to discuss, areas to improve, tweaks we can see Potter introducing, stuff that's working and stuff that isn't working, so on and so forth.

It's just to next to impossible to have that discussion when the starting point is 'what's more shit, the coaching or the players?' and when the basic premise is 'why Potter should be sacked'.

 

[Guinness Boy]

0h how I would love to have a technical, analytical discussion about our tactics, play and philosophy, there is so much to discuss, areas to improve, tweaks we can see Potter introducing, stuff that's working and stuff that isn't working, so on and so forth.

It's just to next to impossible to have that discussion when the starting point is 'what's more shit, the coaching or the players?' and when the basic premise is 'why Potter should be sacked'.

Where did I say Potter should be sacked

 

[Machiavelli]

I wouldn't actually deny that Potter is a good coach of indivdual players, particularly youngsters, particuarly defenders and midfielders. He's brought on Alzate, improved Lamptey's game in a very short space of time, turned March into a wingback, improved Webster and will improve White. Connolly has been given a chance also. And the point of my article was to go player by player and state that actually most of them would get into other teams in the PL. It's not like Potter is being asked to operate without a midfield and with a Barrow quality striker here.

So what does that leave? If we both throw away our passions and deal in facts, after 7 games we are in the bottom five. We have one win. We have no wins at home, despite having welcomed West Brom and Burnley, two sides who look as poor as I've ever seen in this division. We seemingly have a bust up that led us going to Spurs, of all teams, with a third choice keeper making a debut and a CAM playing as some kind of number 9. If Potter is good at the one on one player development (and I think he is) and we have a reasonable squad (I think we do) what is going wrong? Tactics? BAD LUCK? What's your explanation Swanny?

I go back to we have a team that produces very nice football to watch. All the commentators say it. "Oh, Brighton are great to watch, Potter's made them so much more footballery". And they might gush about Ashworth for a short while. But they'll do so on PPV, during the graveyard shift, along with the likes of West Brom and Burnley, because they know they'll get a lot of titting about in one box, a potential set piece sucker punch at the other end, and very likely a low scoring draw.

Interesting thread, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But what I don't get is this, and it involves stepping back from thinking that we could do a better job than CH or Potter (I'm not saying that you're in this camp). The metric that gets you closest to league position is spend on player wages. Last time I looked we were in the bottom five of the PL on that front, and I doubt things have shifted subsequently. And, guess what, we're in the bottom five of the PL. Which might be another way of saying: what did you/we expect (cue many jumping in saying: but the club have stated an ambition of being a top ten club)?

Our problem is largely that we play an expansive, exciting brand of football, but are over-elaborate and toothless with the final ball and/or finish. Apart from a dire second half vs West Brom, and an under-par performance against Everton, we've played well all season. That hasn't translated into results. Some are currently venerating the Newcastle performance, but that wasn't exactly better than the United one, or the Burnley one. Where Newcastle differed from Burnley is that we won a penalty within a few minutes, and got another a few minutes later, and could cruise thereafter. Lamptey scores after 30 seconds versus Burnley, or Pope doesn't pull out a couple of blinding saves, especially from that Welbeck one-on-one, and we're talking a different story.

So, in short, I think there's something in what you're saying, what [MENTION=805]Kalimantan Gull[/MENTION] is saying (ie is there really an enormous problem?), and some of the coaching solutions offered by Wedge, especially the one about getting a finishing/attacking coach in. Murray might be the answer because his mantra has always been about first time finishes, and it's that that we really need to see more of -- the most obvious was Maupay vs Palace, but there are plenty of others.

 

[Machiavelli]

Sycophantic NSC clique bullshit. Stop tearing the team down and support them.

A little bit like the Donald, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Interesting thread, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But what I don't get is this, and it involves stepping back from thinking that we could do a better job than CH or Potter (I'm not saying that you're in this camp). The metric that gets you closest to league position is spend on player wages. Last time I looked we were in the bottom five of the PL on that front, and I doubt things have shifted subsequently. And, guess what, we're in the bottom five of the PL. Which might be another way of saying: what did you/we expect (cue many jumping in saying: but the club have stated an ambition of being a top ten club)?

Our problem is largely that we play an expansive, exciting brand of football, but are over-elaborate and toothless with the final ball and/or finish. Apart from a dire second half vs West Brom, and an under-par performance against Everton, we've played well all season. That hasn't translated into results. Some are currently venerating the Newcastle performance, but that wasn't exactly better than the United one, or the Burnley one. Where Newcastle differed from Burnley is that we won a penalty within a few minutes, and got another a few minutes later, and could cruise thereafter. Lamptey scores after 30 seconds versus Burnley, or Pope doesn't pull out a couple of blinding saves, especially from that Welbeck one-on-one, and we're talking a different story.

So, in short, I think there's something in what you're saying, what @Kallimantan Gull is saying (ie is there really an enormous problem?), and some of the coaching solutions offered by Wedge, especially the one about getting a finishing/attacking coach in. Murray might be the answer because his mantra has always been about first time finishes, and it's that that we really need to see more of -- the most obvious was Maupay vs Palace, but there are plenty of others.

Thanks. A complete and adult response with your own analysis and constructive criticism. This is what NSC needs more of.

Yes, I'm sure [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] can comment more on wages but we are likely bottom five. But, again, does that translate into worse players considering the internationals we have?

Kalimantan has misread me. I'm saying there are fixable problems. Turn those xG stats into actual goals scored and goals not conceded and I'll be back in love with Potterball.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Thanks. A complete and adult response with your own analysis and constructive criticism. This is what NSC needs more of.

Yes, I'm sure [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] can comment more on wages but we are likely bottom five. But, again, does that translate into worse players considering the internationals we have?

Kalimantan has misread me. I'm saying there are fixable problems. Turn those xG stats into actual goals scored and goals not conceded and I'll be back in love with Potterball.

Wages spend and league position have always seemed fairly correlated at lower levels which is the reason wealthy owners can take clubs up the pyramid fairly rapidly. I found this article relating to the PL in 2018-19:

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...ls-compared-to-their-2018-19-league-position/

The stand out points for me are having a wage bill bigger than Newcastle and Wolves and yet finishing 17th. Also, the figures contradict the received wisdom about Palace whose bill is not extravagantly in excess of ours.

Clearly we (slightly) under performed and hence sacked the manager. Wolves and Watford illustrate the point that it is possible to exceed expectations. Our current model (if working as planned) should make us an exception to any such correlation given it is based upon young players/academy products.

 

[Swansman]

Our transition play is quite slick, but at both ends the organisation and finesse is missing. The players are good enough, it requires specialist coaching input. And we’ve got 2 defenders as coaches (Bruno and GP) and two bag carriers in Benny & Bjorn.

Björn mainly does data analysis and convert the data into something the players can work with.

As for "Benny", I assume you mean Ben Roberts, who is the goalkeeper coach.

 

[GT49er]

The players are good enough and the coaching is fine.

We have several new players who need time to settle coupled with the youngest team in the league.

Maupay is currently scoring 1 in 2 and Welbeck looks like he will get goals. Lallana has admitted he is relearning how to play in a more advanced position and our captain has missed almost half the season.

Yes, occasionally we over play in the final 3rd, but that will come.

Sometimes you just need to be patient.

Agree with every word ...............






.......... except "occasionally".

 

[seagullwedgee]

Sort of, 4 wins in 25 sort of patient?

 

[Hugo Rune]

If you are watching Spurs vs WBA, you’ll realise that even with Kane, Son & Bale; it’s pretty hard to break sides down sometimes.

I’ve recovered from the disappointment of not beating one of the most organised teams in the Premier League with one of the best defences. We are not at the level of being able to defend as well as Burnley with Pope being superior to what we have and the Tarkowski/Mee combo amazingly effective and back to their best on Friday night.

Let’s see if teams like Burnley fancy going forward instead of trying to get a no score bore draw when we are at their place when they’ll be needing wins to stay up! We’d have ripped them apart if they’d dared to have committed numbers into our half.

The OP obviously wrote this article out of the disappointment and emotion after the impotent performance on Friday night which is understandable. We are a few scrappy or lucky goals away from being mid-table, comfortably. At some point we’re going to get a decent ref and the dodgy penalties against us will cease.

The misses against Utd hit our team very hard it seems, just when we’d found some confidence in front of goal. It just needs a player to have a good run of form and stick some shots away, similar to Groß in our first EPL season. Maybe that man is Jahanbakhsh.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If you are watching Spurs vs WBA, you realise that even with Kane, Son & Bale, it’s pretty hard to break sides down sometimes.

I’ve recovered from the disappointment of not beating one of the most organised teams in the Premier League with a defence. We are not at the level of being able to defend as well as Burnley with Pope being superior to what we have and the Tarkowski/Mee combo amazingly effective and back to their best on Friday night.

Let’s see if teams like Burnley fancy going forward a score bore at their place when they’ll be needing wins to stay up! We’d have ripped them apart if they’d dared to have committed numbers in to our half.

The OP obviously wrote this article out of disappointment and emotion after the impotent performance on Friday night which in understandable. We are a few scrappy or lucky goals away from being mid table, comfortably. At some point we’re going to get a decent ref and the dodgy penalties against us will cease.

The misses against Utd hit our team very hard it seems, just when we’d found some confidence in front of goal. It just needs a player to have a good run of form and stick some shots away, similar to Groß in our first EPL season. Maybe that man is Jahanbakhsh.

No, the OP thinks that when you play really well and don't win once or twice you are very, very unlucky and have not had the rub of the green refereeing wise. When you do that 21 times out of 25 you have a problem.

 

[Swansman]

Sort of, 4 wins in 25 sort of patient?

25 games, 23 points.

Not particularly good, but no disaster.

I love how the number of games people measure always increase to make sure that the bad spell in January/February is counted: fits the agenda and the urge to throw shit around.

One could say 4 wins in 16 games (since restart), or 16 points in 16 games, but that doesnt sound terrible, so lets make sure we always include January/February into the equation.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Ive no issue at all with the coaching in open play, we are decent in attack and defense (bar the obvious chance conversion) issue. This is why i am generally positive. Improvement will come.

Counter attacks are a bit of an issue both in attack and defense. Due to the tactics, we are acceptably vulnerable to the counter but are improving but in attack we havent maximised transitions so work to do to optimise there.

The biggest issue i have is Set Pieces.
If we could at least sort out corners and free kicks and stop dicking about frustration would be less IMO.




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[El Presidente]

Wages spend and league position have always seemed fairly correlated at lower levels which is the reason wealthy owners can take clubs up the pyramid fairly rapidly. I found this article relating to the PL in 2018-19:

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...ls-compared-to-their-2018-19-league-position/

The stand out points for me are having a wage bill bigger than Newcastle and Wolves and yet finishing 17th. Also, the figures contradict the received wisdom about Palace whose bill is not extravagantly in excess of ours.

Clearly we (slightly) under performed and hence sacked the manager. Wolves and Watford illustrate the point that it is possible to exceed expectations. Our current model (if working as planned) should make us an exception to any such correlation given it is based upon young players/academy products.

Newcastle have punched above their weight in last couple of years, but their stated wage bill isn't the real one. There's some dealing from the bottom of the deck in their calculations.

As far as Wolves are concerned, figures are from the first season in the PL, with a squad that has come up from the Championship, and wage bill reflects that.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Ive no issue at all with the coaching in open play, we are decent in attack and defense (bar the obvious chance conversion) issue. This is why i am generally positive. Improvement will come.

Counter attacks are a bit of an issue both in attack and defense. Due to the tactics, we are acceptably vulnerable to the counter but are improving but in attack we havent maximised transitions so work to do to optimise there.

The biggest issue i have is Set Pieces.
If we could at least sort out corners and free kicks and stop dicking about frustration would be less IMO.




Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Re set pieces, there must be some metric that the analytics team have spotted which is stopping us from crossing first time at corners.

Its clearly a tactic to play short, so maybe they've spotted we concede on the counter too often on our own corners when we chuck it in the mixer first time?

Yes we are producing very little at corners, but at least we aren't getting caught with our pants down either.

I believe we've only conceded one goal on the counter this season.

 

[Granny on the wing]

Ive no issue at all with the coaching in open play, we are decent in attack and defense (bar the obvious chance conversion) issue. This is why i am generally positive. Improvement will come.

Counter attacks are a bit of an issue both in attack and defense. Due to the tactics, we are acceptably vulnerable to the counter but are improving but in attack we havent maximised transitions so work to do to optimise there.

The biggest issue i have is Set Pieces.
If we could at least sort out corners and free kicks and stop dicking about frustration would be less IMO.



Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

As far as Free Kicks are concerned around the Box ,would it not be best if the most successful player in Training takes them especially direct one`s .Not sure who that player is at the moment .

 

[Deleted member 2719]

If you say so, As an experienced user have you left feedback on their website?

There is a difference, I just have my moist moments, but you're just constantly wet.