[Technology] Are some leftwingers unthinking automatons?

[Weststander]

Blimey, does that mean when I was teaching creative accounting at Lehman Bros and Bear Sterns graduates in Wall Street (amongst others) I was trying to subliminally bring down capitalism?

It nearly worked though...

You'd obviously always allow reasoned debate and have experience of the world beyond higher education possibly giving you a rounded (not rotund) perspective?

The 'debates' at local schools and beyond on recent matters such as Momentum and Brexit have often abruptly ended as follows "Well I'm the lecturer, I'm older than you and you're wrong". The internet and free speech have their advantages, with young people able to read up, beyond the propaganda thrust upon them. A bit like the adage that the evil Daily Mail wins and loses elections. We can't under estimate the power of individuals to make up their own minds, beyond those who think they can mould others.

 

[El Presidente]

You'd obviously always allow reasoned debate and have experience of the world beyond higher education possibly giving you a rounded (not rotund) perspective?

The 'debates' at local schools and beyond on recent matters such as Momentum and Brexit have often abruptly ended as follows "Well I'm the lecturer, I'm older than you and you're wrong". The internet and free speech have their advantages, with young people able to read up, beyond the propaganda thrust upon them. A bit like the adage that the evil Daily Mail wins and loses elections. We can't under estimate the power of individuals to make up their own minds, beyond those who think they can mould others.

Yup, I’m with you entirely. Engage in the issue and rather than focus on the ‘what’ element of a viewpoint, try to understand the ‘why’ factors, which tend to be far more revealing and help identify more underlying issues. Neither the left or the right have a monopoly on closed minds, and by listening to the other side you can learn a lot about yourself as well as them.

There are plenty of ‘left wing’ people in education whose swallowing of dogma hides ignorance, which is shabby for those whose job is to expand minds. They do the left no favours (if calling me a scab and spitting at my car is supposed to encourage me to vote Labour then it’s not a very well thought through policy) and aren’t prepared to give the other side a chance and listen to suggestions and compromises.

At the last set of strikes in my profession (and I’m a member of three different trade unions) I didn’t cross picket lines but at the same time ensured students weren’t disadvantaged by delivering lectures from home online.

The right in education are equally blinkered, manipulating data and cherry picking assumptions when designing models in advance to produce outputs which are agenda rather than objectively driven, and encouraging promotion on a old boys’ network and patronage rather than merit, therefore narrowing the talent pool and risking losing those who can make a positive difference.

 

[Weststander]

Yup, I’m with you entirely. Engage in the issue and rather than focus on the ‘what’ element of a viewpoint, try to understand the ‘why’ factors, which tend to be far more revealing and help identify more underlying issues. Neither the left or the right have a monopoly on closed minds, and by listening to the other side you can learn a lot about yourself as well as them.

There are plenty of ‘left wing’ people in education whose swallowing of dogma hides ignorance, which is shabby for those whose job is to expand minds. They do the left no favours (if calling me a scab and spitting at my car is supposed to encourage me to vote Labour then it’s not a very well thought through policy) and aren’t prepared to give the other side a chance and listen to suggestions and compromises.

At the last set of strikes in my profession (and I’m a member of three different trade unions) I didn’t cross picket lines but at the same time ensured students weren’t disadvantaged by delivering lectures from home online.

The right in education are equally blinkered, manipulating data and cherry picking assumptions when designing models in advance to produce outputs which are agenda rather than objectively driven, and encouraging promotion on a old boys’ network and patronage rather than merit, therefore narrowing the talent pool and risking losing those who can make a positive difference.

As ever, great and honest insights, thank you.

Agree with you about the right too, and it goes way beyond education. Have had dealings with horrible ex-public school boys, who help useless posh buddies take key roles ahead of clearly better non-posh candidates. Not a true meritocracy, which is to country's detriment. This is not going to end anytime soon, certain schools are still churning out 18 year olds who've been told for 5 plus years "You are winners, go show the World that".

 

[warmleyseagull]

Read Pol Pot: The History of a Nightmare to get a gist of how far sticking to left wing dogma can go...

 

[looney]

Always been the way. School teachers and uni lecturers arrogantly deeming that their left view of the world is righteous and unsubtly trying to indoctrinate their students. But because even 14 year olds in this free thinking country make up their own minds, it doesn’t go entirely to their plan. I know this through first hand knowledge of young folk currently in education.

Relax - their propaganda only works those inclined left already.

The problem is mainly in the humanities but tend to agree.

 

[clapham_gull]

Always been the way. School teachers and uni lecturers arrogantly deeming that their left view of the world is righteous and unsubtly trying to indoctrinate their students. But because even 14 year olds in this free thinking country make up their own minds, it doesn’t go entirely to their plan. I know this through first hand knowledge of young folk currently in education.

Relax - their propaganda only works those inclined left already.

Which University did you go to ?

 

[cunning fergus]

Agree entirely with your middle section on economics. The hard left believe there’s a large cake that grows by accident, which should be cut more fairly. Within reason there’s fairness and sense there, but a vibrant economy driven by entrepreneurs taking risks determines the size of the cake.

We’re often then told about great systems such as in Sweden. With tax knowledge, I’ve looked at this closely and ALL middle and high earners pay far higher tax than us. The proposed UK idyll of taxing everyone earning over £100k or £150k very heavily would not produce the revenue to create a Swedish type welfare state. Plus at a stroke it would disincentivise those who do run businesses or have the option in their chosen profession to work overseas.

There’s a balancing act to maximise total tax take.

This “proposed idyll” is actually reality......

http://www.myersclark.co.uk/blog-post/60-tax-rate-club

Unless you think income tax should be above 60% for some high earners........under a Tory regime too, out Corbyning Corbyn!

 

[cunning fergus]

Not you. I like your reasoned views.

I'm not going to name call, but those who've had bans deserved it. Sometimes they have valid points IMO (which are seized upon by their left wing NSC adversaries), but they respond with insults.

One final thing, their "very right wing" views are fine by me. It's perfectly legal to support political views of the right for example the EDL. Those views are for debate as much as those of people demanding high taxation, open doors immigration and state ownership of a swathe of industries.

Jeez, if the swapping of insults is what results in bans I would have thought this place would be empty, your post 151 is a case in point. This thread had not descended into personal insults up until that point.......

 

[cunning fergus]

Are there any RW or LW Authoritarians in Parliament at present?

Undoubtedly there are, bans and censorship are the lingua franca of mainstream politicians these days.......a reactionary ban is the first tool reached for in respect of exceptional events.

 

[cunning fergus]

And both types of regime almost always give the ruling elite a life of luxury. Power corrupts.

There is usually always a ruling elite benefitting from a life of luxury, I’m not sure there is any political system that wouldn’t have that heirachy.

It’s how influential they can be in the face of change that I think their true intentions become clear.

When an electorate makes a choice that flys in the face of the ruling elite guidance, then you will see how committed they are to maintaining their wealth and power.

I think you know what I mean.

 

[Weststander]

Which University did you go to ?

Kent.

And you?

 

[Weststander]

Jeez, if the swapping of insults is what results in bans I would have thought this place would be empty, your post 151 is a case in point. This thread had not descended into personal insults up until that point.......

Wasn’t referring to this thread. I was asked in general which NSC’ers are very right wing? Not for me to say. But I would hazard a guess those that get involved in political mud slinging matches with those vehemently pro Remain or pro Corbyn on NSC; and yes, those other debates do degenerate into pointless intransigent statements with barely veiled anger.

 

[The Clamp]

Always been the way. School teachers and uni lecturers arrogantly deeming that their left view of the world is righteous and unsubtly trying to indoctrinate their students. But because even 14 year olds in this free thinking country make up their own minds, it doesn’t go entirely to their plan. I know this through first hand knowledge of young folk currently in education.

Relax - their propaganda only works those inclined left already.

That is one of the most bonkers posts I’ve ever read on here. Total tinfoil hattery! Well done.

 

[dingodan]

That is one of the most bonkers posts I’ve ever read on here. Total tinfoil hattery! Well done.

Eight in ten British university lecturers are 'Left-wing', survey finds
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...-university-lecturers-left-wing-survey-finds/

Liberal professors outnumber conservatives nearly 12 to 1, study finds
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/6/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservatives-12-1/

& you may argue that this imbalance doesn't translate into the indoctrination of students, but universities (and schools for that matter) do appear to have become no longer places which encourage objective reason and critical thinking in their students.

More than nine in 10 UK universities restrict free speech on campus, report claims
https://www.independent.co.uk/stude...tree-cardiff-ediburgh-newcastle-a7577381.html

Secret Teacher: my school is an echo-chamber for leftwing views
https://www.theguardian.com/teacher...her-school-echo-chamber-leftwing-views-labour

Teacher who became face of Government recruitment drive warns that children are subjected to 'left-wing brainwashing' in classroom
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educati...-government-recruitment-drive-warns-children/



Apology from Laurier President and Vice-Chancellor Deborah MacLatchy
https://www.wlu.ca/news/spotlights/2017/nov/apology-from-laurier-president-and-vice-chancellor.html

 

[The Clamp]

Universities and academic institutions have always been primarily liberal places as far back as they go. It’s a good job we have Eton, Harrow, Cambridge, Oxford and almost 300 private schools to balance it out and provide members for Bullingdon.

 

[dingodan]

Universities and academic institutions have always been primarily liberal places as far back as they go. It’s a good job we have Eton, Harrow, Cambridge, Oxford and almost 300 private schools to balance it out and provide members for Bullingdon.

https://www.independent.co.uk/stude...tree-cardiff-ediburgh-newcastle-a7577381.html

The Free Speech University Rankings in full

Red – universities that have banned and actively censored ideas on campus:

Abertay
Aberystwyth
Aston
Bath
Bath Spa
Bedforshire
Birkbeck
Birmingham
Birmingham City
Bournemouth
Bradford
Bristol
Brunel
Cardiff
Cardiff Met
Chichester
City
Coventry
Cumbria
Derby
Dundee
Durham
Edge Hill
Edinburgh
Essex
Gloucestershire
Glyndwr
Goldsmiths
Greenwich
Huddersfield
Hull
Kingston
King's College
Lancaster
Leeds
Leeds Beckett
Leicester
Lincoln
Liverpool Hope
LJMU
London South Bank
LSE
Manchester Metropolitan
Manchester
Middlesex
Newcastle
Northampton
Nottingham
Oxford
Plymouth
Portsmouth
Queen Margaret
Queen Mary
Reading
Roehampton
Royal Holloway
Salford
Sheffield
Sheffield Hallam
Staffordshire
Stirling
Strathclyde
Surrey
Sessex
Swansea
University College London
University of East Anglia
University of East London
University of the West of England
Warwick
Westminster
Wolverhampton
York St John

Amber – universities that have chilled free speech through intervention:

Aberdeen
Anglia Ruskin
Bangor
Bolton
Brighton
Cambridge
Canterbury
Chester
De Montfort
Edinburgh Napier
Exeter
Glasgow
Imperial
Keele
Kent
Leeds Trinity
Liverpool
London Metropolitan
Northumbria
Nottingham Trent
Oxford Brookes
Queen's Belfast
SOAS
Solent
South Wales
Southampton
St Andrews
Sunderland
Teeside
UCLAN
Ulster
University of West London
Winchester
Worcester
York

Green – universities with a hands-off approach to free speech:

Buckingham
Glasgow Caledonian
Hertfordshire
Loughborough
Robert Gordon
Trinity St David
University of West Scotland

 

[The Clamp]

Well I really shouldn’t t worry. Despite all these claims we still have a right wing party in power , Trump is gaining strength and more people listen to his crap than ever before and the world is leaning more and more to the right so I imagine all you panicky little right wingers will be just fine. Look around you, we are not getting more liberal.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

Yup, I’m with you entirely. Engage in the issue and rather than focus on the ‘what’ element of a viewpoint, try to understand the ‘why’ factors, which tend to be far more revealing and help identify more underlying issues. Neither the left or the right have a monopoly on closed minds, and by listening to the other side you can learn a lot about yourself as well as them.

Absolutely this.

In any debate I just try and ask questions. Make people think, make people question, give them as many facts as you can, then let them draw their own conclusions from that. Most people aren't as stupid as you think they are - they just act it.

If you make "statements" intelligent people tend to switch off and revert to their 'default viewpoint' as a knee-jerk reaction to being told what to believe. If they do blindly believe what they are told (as in this thread title) without question, then I am afraid they are bell-ends and their opinion counts to me as much as a mouse fart at a rock concert anyway.

I always listen to the alternative viewpoints, from start to finish - even if I'm certain they're completely wrong, just in case they have one salient point I can take on board! I think 99.99% of politicians are wankers, left or right, so I'm not biased either way.. by the way. Corbyn would destroy this country, and May is inadvertently doing her best. Heaven help us all!

 

[dingodan]

Well I really shouldn’t t worry. Despite all these claims we still have a right wing party in power , Trump is gaining strength and more people listen to his crap than ever before and the world is leaning more and more to the right so I imagine all you panicky little right wingers will be just fine. Look around you, we are not getting more liberal.

We are certainly becoming more intolerant. You mentioned institutions like Oxford University as something like a counter to a left-wing skew in universities. Take a look at which views/speakers/debates have been banned from Oxford. The intolerance isn't divided each way, it's one way, even at places like Oxford.

Where will we be after a few more generations of students who haven't been exposed to the full spectrum of ideas and viewpoints?

Whatever your political views a new generation who have only been exposed to one side of an argument and are unable to think critically isn't good for any of us.

 

[The Clamp]

We are certainly becoming more intolerant. You mentioned institutions like Oxford University as something like a counter to a left-wing skew in universities. Take a look at which views/speakers/debates have been banned from Oxford. The intolerance isn't divided each way, it's one way, even at places like Oxford.

Where will we be after a few more generations of students who haven't been exposed to the full spectrum of ideas and viewpoints?

Whatever your political views a new generation who have only been exposed to one side of an argument and are unable to think critically isn't good for any of us.

It’s not a problem. I’m more concerned with the intolerant right wing who are holding all the power and don’t seem to be letting go anytime soon.