Are labour voters the worst losers in the history of the world?

[piersa]

We ALL lost this election. Tory voters are just not aware of it yet. They will be.

Not true, I won a small fortune betting on the tory victory and labour getting under 266 seats. I'm over the moon with the pro-work victory.

 

[Buzzer]

I quite agree, but looking how their different campaign messages impacted the polls. It was the late and last message, about the fear of SNP calling the shots in westminster that made the difference.

I disagree and for 2 reasons:

Firstly, the SNP were threatening to derail the Tories from very early on in the campaign, the SNP prediction of seats was well-known early on. If people were scared of Lab/SNP then they would have started switching at that point. The polls didn't indicate that.

Secondly, as I've said elsewhere, even up to Thursday the polls were consistent in their level pegging of Tory and Labour. There was no indication of a trend towards the Tories in the last few days. It was all the same throughout.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The fact that you refer to all left wingers as whingers confirms my assumptions about white Australians.

It confirms you know very little. The fact you use a term like "white australian" indicates a bigot with very little idea of what they are talking about.

 

[yxee]

It's far more logical than your idea. The polls aren't usually that inaccurate.

I don't care about being in an ideological minority. I care about the country being ruled by a party that was voted for by just over 35% of voters and who ran a very negative campaign.

If you're questioning the legitimacy of a parliamentary majority then your enemy is not the conservative party, but the entire political system. I agree with you that it's rubbish.

I wouldn't say that fear of Labour+SNP is a negative campaign. It was a very powerful wedge that resonated extremely strongly with lots of voters. If the Tories can't point that out, what can they do? If it's the honest truth, I don't see what's wrong.

Labour's fear tactics on the NHS, however.....

Secondly, as I've said elsewhere, even up to Thursday the polls were consistent in their level pegging of Tory and Labour. There was no indication of a trend towards the Tories in the last few days. It was all the same throughout.

Thank you, you said it better than I could.

 

[beorhthelm]

Probably because that is what the campaign became.

Here's an article that predicted it (24/04) from the independent:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...k-is-shameless-but-it-will-work-10202185.html

your article doesnt address the point. so what if highlighting Labour-SNP links was a campaign tactic. it wasn't showing in the polls, people were not reporting that this was a major concern. it make no sense to suggest that polling overlooked this issue that had been running for weeks, so its rather more likely that polling missed alot of Tories, either by method or the adjustments they make.

 

[glasfryn]

Not true, I won a small fortune betting on the tory victory and labour getting under 266 seats. I'm over the moon with the pro-work victory.

you won't be when you turn up at a hospital and its closed due to lack of doctors and nurses

 

[Stato]

Xenophobic.

Yeah, Bloody Xenos, coming over 'ere taking our jobs.

 

[yxee]

Labour's fear tactics on the NHS, however.....

you won't be when you turn up at a hospital and its closed due to lack of doctors and nurses

That didn't take long

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I am struggling to think of a more bitter set of people. They are making Fergie, Mourinho and Nigel Adkins look gracious.

Some Labour voters are bad losers.

Some Tory voters are bad winners.


And the other way round.

 

[Igzilla]

don't talk about PR as the most important issue, unless you mean part of a complete root and branch overhaul of the electoral system. PR is just a counting method, if you don't change what you are counting then its going to end up just as flawed.

PR isn't just a counting system, as the electorial boundaries would need to be redrawn and the magnitude (number of MP's per area) would need to be determined. For the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly, the additional member system is used, similar to Germany's MMP system. In Ireland, they use STV, but (according to wikipedia - for what it's worth) they had problems by setting the magnitude too low at 3. They have now changed that to 4 and "seems to be working much better". My point is that root and branch overhaul is a natural part of reforming FPTP to PR.

 

[Triggaaar]

I quite agree, but looking how their different campaign messages impacted the polls. It was the late and last message, about the fear of SNP calling the shots in westminster that made the difference.

I think Buzzer has explained that that's not the case. It didn't suddenly swing to the Tories in the last day or two, it swung when people got to the polling booth:

I think it far more likely from the start that the opinion polls were fundamentally wrong with some aspect of the algorithm that they use. I don't recall massive swings away from Labour to the Tories from them in the very last days before the election. If the fear factor had crept in, in he last few weeks there should have been a trend. There wasn't.

It seems to me that the SNP wouldn't of had the power that many think, as they would have been shooting themselves in the foot weakening labours position. The SNP need a labour government to get anywhere. It seems clear who would of had the power in that relationship. However admittedly this is just conjecture and opinion.

I don't really understand your point of view. If Labour got 270 seats, they could have formed a minority government, getting their queen's speech in with support from the SNP, and then when it came to individual policies they wanted to pass, the SNP would have supported them in exchange for a better deal for Scotland. Now of course that wouldn't have meant scrapping Trident, and it wouldn't have meant another Scottish referendum in 5 years, but there would have been some concessions. Even with a Tory majority we're a bit concerned about what we're going to offer the noisy, selfish SNP, we'd have undoubtedly offered them more if Labour needed them.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I disagree and for 2 reasons:

Firstly, the SNP were threatening to derail the Tories from very early on in the campaign, the SNP prediction of seats was well-known early on. If people were scared of Lab/SNP then they would have started switching at that point. The polls didn't indicate that.

Secondly, as I've said elsewhere, even up to Thursday the polls were consistent in their level pegging of Tory and Labour. There was no indication of a trend towards the Tories in the last few days. It was all the same throughout.

Maybe you're right.

It does appear that the conservatives were hammering that message for a reason though, i think it swayed a significant (but probably small) portion of the electorate, or perhaps galvanised them to vote.

It was a close run thing and i think it helped push them over the line.

 

[glasfryn]

It confirms you know very little. The fact you use a term like "white australian" indicates a bigot with very little idea of what they are talking about.

this thread is about British politics
why would anyone care about whats happening the other side of the world unless it concerns them directly

 

[Nibble]

I've just never met a white Australian that I liked except for the barmaid with the big wobblers who gave me a blowy by the bins behind the bins at the back of The Kings Arms in Dorking on her tea break. And I didn't like her much.

 

[Nibble]

It confirms you know very little. The fact you use a term like "white australian" indicates a bigot with very little idea of what they are talking about.

Yes,white people (Caucasian) who are born in Australia. White Australians.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

this thread is about British politics
why would anyone care about whats happening the other side of the world unless it concerns them directly

I was simply confirming that the OP's claim about Labor voters extends all around the world.

Birds of a feather sook together.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I think Buzzer has explained that that's not the case. It didn't suddenly swing to the Tories in the last day or two, it swung when people got to the polling booth:



I don't really understand your point of view. If Labour got 270 seats, they could have formed a minority government, getting their queen's speech in with support from the SNP, and then when it came to individual policies they wanted to pass, the SNP would have supported them in exchange for a better deal for Scotland. Now of course that wouldn't have meant scrapping Trident, and it wouldn't have meant another Scottish referendum in 5 years, but there would have been some concessions. Even with a Tory majority we're a bit concerned about what we're going to offer the noisy, selfish SNP, we'd have undoubtedly offered them more if Labour needed them.

1st, see my reply to Buzzer.

2nd, there probably would have been some back room dealings at some point. But, if labour had just stood their ground and refused any dealings with the SNP, what could the they do?
If they were to vote the non existent labour government down, they'd just bring in the conservatives...

Anyway, it's all conjecture now...

 

[glasfryn]

I've just never met a white Australian that I liked except for the barmaid with the big wobblers who gave me a blowy by the bins behind the bins at the back of The Kings Arms in Dorking on her tea break. And I didn't like her much.

so far post of the week

 

[Seagull58]

Yes, I did. Read the post. It is far more likely that the fear of Labour/SNP coalition pushed them to change their mind last minute. Much more likely than your very unlikely idea that Tory voters feel ashamed in polls where they won't be identified.

Or it may be that there was a considerable margin of error in the polling.

 

[father_and_son]

PR isn't just a counting system, as the electorial boundaries would need to be redrawn and the magnitude (number of MP's per area) would need to be determined. For the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly, the additional member system is used, similar to Germany's MMP system. In Ireland, they use STV, but (according to wikipedia - for what it's worth) they had problems by setting the magnitude too low at 3. They have now changed that to 4 and "seems to be working much better". My point is that root and branch overhaul is a natural part of reforming FPTP to PR.

Its far more fundamental than that...

Our democracy is deliberately a confrontational one. The "opposition" are supposed to do just that... oppose the government.

They are supposed to offer the alternative perspective and force debate. This is why FPTP is the perfect system for the parliamentary democracy we have in this country (rightly or wrongly). Change the voting system and you need to overhaul the ENTIRE parliamentary system that we have from confrontational to cooperative. You need to remove the Whips, offer everything as a free vote and realistically move to a new building with out the deliberately confrontational aspects of 'sides' and voting chambers.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do this but its not a straight forward as just implementing a new voting system.