[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[drew]

I suspect there is quite a gap between those who work very hard and are productive and those like train drivers that get higher and higher wages but refuse to modernise and in fact demand to work less hours for more money.
But also the answer is rarely working harder or longer hours but being more productive through the use of technology, machinery etc. This requires acceptance of change by the workforce (see trains) and investment by companies. The latter requires an economically competent chancellor to create the right environment for investment.Reeves has done the opposite.

Have you got any evidence that the train drivers refuse to modernise or want shorter hours? As I understand it, a lot of the problems are down to crap management who rely on drivers working on their days off rather than employ enough of them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Have you got any evidence that the train drivers refuse to modernise or want shorter hours? As I understand it, a lot of the problems are down to crap management who rely on drivers working on their days off rather than employ enough of them.

Work-shy train divers versus hard working farmers.....

Perspective is such a moveable feast.....innit.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Reeves is doing exactly what the previous Tory chancellor was doing, showing that in effect there are no meaningful choices to be made in British politics.

You elect a blue party, they do what the Treasury officials convince them must be done, you elect a red party and they do what the Treasury officials convince them must be done.

Very much like Democrat/Republican in the US, both are the status quo, the presentation may be different, but the reality will be the same. There will be differences around the edges, I infinitely prefer Labour’s low-key and more measured approach to policy, over the Conservatives rabble-rousing and vindictive approach, creating “enemies” that must be defeated, but aside from the presentation there is limited to no difference between both parties, we’ve just elected a slightly less divisive centre-right party to replace a party that had moved too far right to appeal to the majority of the electorate.

I will give Starmer’s government more time, and I still regard it as an improvement on the government that went before it, but most of Reeves pronouncements since becoming chancellor have brought her back in line with what the Conservative chancellor was advocating in their last term in power. For those hoping for a saner path forward, there’s precious little so far to hang your hat on.

Debt-fuelled growth, softening non-dom changes, and allowing British consumers to be ripped off with impunity were all central pillars of Conservative policy. I see why people give up on politics, it’s a very thin gruel we’re expected to swallow.

If the story is the same in 3 years I'll join your Friday Night Misery club.

Till then it is far too soon to determine whether Labour are red in tooth and claw, the masters now, at one end, or just tories without the fuckwittery, tomfoolery and flag-shagging (or something risky in between).

Still early days.

 

[loz]

The clown car is now polling 22%. They are killing the chances of a decent Labour government ever again in this country

You would have said the same about the Tories I 1981 when they were polling behind Micheal Foots Labour Party and were coming 3rd and even 4th in local elections.

Inflation at over 10% and interest rates at 12%, unemployment rate at 9% that was 18 months into the Thatcher government so I think there is time to recover in 4.5 years.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You would have said the same about the Tories I 1981 when they were polling behind Micheal Foots Labour Party and were coming 3rd and even 4th in local elections.

Inflation at over 10% and interest rates at 12%, unemployment rate at 9% that was 18 months into the Thatcher government so I think there is time to recover in 4.5 years.

And Lawson boom and bust almost meant I lost my house.
And yet Edwina-shagger, Major, still beat Kinnock.

Politics is a funny old game.

 

[A1X]

Work-shy train divers versus hard working farmers.....

Perspective is such a moveable feast.....innit.

Oh come on, I refuse to believe the British media would seek to create artificial dividing lines between groups of British workers.

 

[lawros left foot]

All the Big Government Reforms the Media Hasn’t Been Telling You About

You won't have read much about these announcements over the past few weeks

bylinetimes.com

 

[Springal]

The clown car is now polling 22%. They are killing the chances of a decent Labour government ever again in this country

 

[Hugo Rune]

You would have said the same about the Tories I 1981 when they were polling behind Micheal Foots Labour Party and were coming 3rd and even 4th in local elections.

Inflation at over 10% and interest rates at 12%, unemployment rate at 9% that was 18 months into the Thatcher government so I think there is time to recover in 4.5 years.

Unfortunately, some just can’t cope with the idea that 4.5 years is an incredibly long time.

Voters with slightly better judgement might conclude that there is a lot for the new Government to fix after 14 years of profound decline along with the richer getting a lot richer.
This has to mean tough and unpopular decisions if we want to have decent public services but not pay any extra income tax, VAT or national insurance.

They may well be equally as unpopular in 2029 as they appear to be now but only a fool would start predicting the result of the next election.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Shirley, you're not suggesting that Nige and co could be lying to the terminally naive

 

[Rdodge30]

No easy choices left after Truss emptied what was left in the piggy bank. Mention of issues with train unions sends me down a rabbit hole.

I am simultaneously intrigued/horrified at the advance of AI and wonder whether the train drivers are roughly where the print unions were in 1982. The "Vanguard" of union power can be a dangerous place to be.

Which rail dependent European country will be the first to switch to mostly/ completely driverless trains? The issues blocking driverless cars would appear to much larger than for trains. This isn't a request, by the way, but the DLR has run for 40? years without significant issues.

Isn’t it the case that we already have driverless trains … is it docklands? But they are staffed because of union agreement.

 

[Bodian]

@cjd - hope your socks are okay and you haven't laughed them off. I'm not quite sure what is so hilarious about my posts, but glad you are amused. Maybe you could explain to us simple souls quite why my posts are so funny - I'm not particularly known as a comedian.

Five out of the six factors are longer-term issues though aren't they?

View attachment 195611

Plus of course Brexit

View attachment 195610

Yes - it's the 'soft' stuff that makes the difference between the parties. But rarely gets reported on.

Out of the article that @nevergoagain and @fly high were linking and referring to (actually - it's the report the article is citing)

I read it - maybe they didn't?

 

[abc]

Unfortunately, some just can’t cope with the idea that 4.5 years is an incredibly long time.

Voters with slightly better judgement might conclude that there is a lot for the new Government to fix after 14 years of profound decline along with the richer getting a lot richer.
This has to mean tough and unpopular decisions if we want to have decent public services but not pay any extra income tax, VAT or national insurance.

They may well be equally as unpopular in 2029 as they appear to be now but only a fool would start predicting the result of the next election.

Totally agree and only time will tell. But what Reeves & Co do now will decide where we are in 2029. Ask anyone on business or who understands very basic economics, who thinks that we have a chance in hell of delivering what the gov hope to by then.
Simply astounding that anyone here can defend this government.

 

[abc]

Have you got any evidence that the train drivers refuse to modernise or want shorter hours? As I understand it, a lot of the problems are down to crap management who rely on drivers working on their days off rather than employ enough of them.

Seriously? The never never ending southern rail strike was about the unions refusing to change working practices!

 

[BadFish]

Work-shy train divers versus hard working farmers.....

Perspective is such a moveable feast.....innit.

Moved by the right wing press usually, people lap it up though.

 

[Since1982]

Totally agree and only time will tell. But what Reeves & Co do now will decide where we are in 2029. Ask anyone on business or who understands very basic economics, who thinks that we have a chance in hell of delivering what the gov hope to by then.
Simply astounding that anyone here can defend this government.

Perhaps many of us believe that the current lot, although far from perfect, represent a massive improvement over the last 14 shambolic years and, given our political system is a two horse race, that is the best offer we have at the moment.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

The clown car is now polling 22%. They are killing the chances of a decent Labour government ever again in this country

I don't like the current Labour lot much but stats for lefties tend to post incredibly dubious polling information with tiny sample sizes, as well as posting a load of old spurious crap so I wouldn't listen to anything they say.

 

[BadFish]

Perhaps many of us believe that the current lot, although far from perfect, represent a massive improvement over the last 14 shambolic years and, given our political system is a two horse race, that is the best offer we have at the moment.

The tribalists tubthumping that this is the worst ever government etc are a massive problem for you. While politics sits in this red team blue team shit we have no chance of objective discussion and the chancing of holding governments accountable is limited.

Loyalty to these twerps is ill advised.

 

[Bodian]

The tribalists tubthumping that this is the worst ever government etc are a massive problem for you. While politics sits in this red team blue team shit we have no chance of objective discussion and the chancing of holding governments accountable is limited.

Loyalty to these twerps is ill advised.

So what would you recommend the chancellor does?

 

[BadFish]

So what would you recommend the chancellor does?

My post was about how the electorate choose to position themselves in the current political set up, and how this hamstrings the chances of a decent government.

I have no recommendations for the chancellor.