[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

How have you addressed the point you’ve highlighted?? Many farmers are not rich .. get off your high horse and do some research, look at the income per acre and the insane cost per acre… it doesn’t matter how much your lands worth if you’re only making £59/60k a year you can’t pay the inheritance tax ….

<sigh>

The ones that aren't rich won't be affected.

 

[nevergoagain]

<sigh>

The ones that aren't rich won't be affected.

Deluded

 

[Is it PotG?]

<sigh>

The ones that aren't rich won't be affected.

If ignorance is bliss then you must be the happiest man in England.

 

[Titanic]

<sigh>

The ones that aren't rich won't be affected.

They are precisely the ones who will be affected.... cash poor, low-turnover, hardworking farmers. The only way to pay the Inheritance tax will be to sell land to wealthy neighbours, developers / land-bankers, spivs etc...

 

[Rdodge30]

Of course they will, their only ‘riches’ are the land they bought generations ago …. From which some of them are only able to make a reasonable living, nothing more…. Said land which is now unbelievably over valued because, amongst other reasons, multi millionaires and billionaires are buying up as much as they can in order to avoid tax.

It’s a piss poor law, Harry which you don’t seem to understand because you think anyone who has millions of pounds worth of Farm land is rich


So don’t you sigh at me sir!

 

[Rdodge30]

for which I would pay 800K immediately if not a farmer

… which is also incredibly wrong. Inheritance tax is a horrible thing…. There’s no reason to think that someone who bought a house under the threshold 40 years ago is likely to have children who can afford £800,000 just because market forces have increased the value of said house.

 

[Bodian]

But also need to address generations holding on to farming land they don’t use. I buy meat from 2 farmers and both are tenants. Slogging away trying to make ends meet for land they’ll never own paying rent to landowners who do nothing with it

Isn't it precisely these types of owners of farmland that are most likely to be affected by this? (note - the inheritance tax relates to 'farmland', not just 'farmers')

The tenant farmers will NOT be affected at all by this, and indeed, may benefit. If, as some speculate, those owning farmland will have to sell it off to pay their IHT - then their tenants may be able to purchase it.

 

[darkwolf666]

Of course they will, their only ‘riches’ are the land they bought generations ago …. From which some of them are only able to make a reasonable living, nothing more…. Said land which is now unbelievably over valued because, amongst other reasons, multi millionaires and billionaires are buying up as much as they can in order to avoid tax.

It’s a piss poor law, Harry which you don’t seem to understand because you think anyone who has millions of pounds worth of Farm land is rich


So don’t you sigh at me sir!

So farmers are struggling, because millionaires have used buying farm land as a tax break (fiddle) - I think the anger is aimed in the wrong direction, really.

As an aside, I have millions of pounds worth of Rembrandt's in my loft - but I want to claim my winter fuel allowance - can you campaign for me, please?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

They are precisely the ones who will be affected.... cash poor, low-turnover, hardworking farmers. The only way to pay the Inheritance tax will be to sell land to wealthy neighbours, developers / land-bankers, spivs etc...

Why should 'poor' farmers (who wish to hand over property worth £2 million - an odd notion of poor) be exempt from the taxes all the rest of us would have to pay?
And not even all the tax.
Just half of it.
And with a higher threshold.

They never had this apparent sense of entitlement before Thatcher gave them special status.

Anyway, I thought you right wingers object in principle to people taking offense on behalf of others.
That's one of Clarkson's mantras against the 'woke' left, is it not?
How does Clarkson stand on taxing farmers I wonder.
Oops! I already knew.

Anyway, a business that is 'cash-poor, low turnover' sounds inefficient to me.
Why should hard working tax payers subsidize such businesses?
And hang on, it isn't just the business, it is the homestead that is being handed on.

I seem to recall some deflection argument about undermining traditional rural life.
Why should these people live an elysian existence, untroubled by market forces?
The need to pull up their knickers and make me a cup of tea, I recon.

 

[Bodian]

… which is also incredibly wrong. Inheritance tax is a horrible thing…. There’s no reason to think that someone who bought a house under the threshold 40 years ago is likely to have children who can afford £800,000 just because market forces have increased the value of said house.

If parents own a house worth £10m, then I'm sure that their children won't be struggling and still living at home in the family house. They'll have a choice won't they - they can either sell the family home, pocketing a very large unearned windfall. Or, if they wished, they could sell their own house (as they are likely to have one with parents wealthy enough to have a £10m home) and pay the IHT then move into the old family home.

 

[Springal]

Isn't it precisely these types of owners of farmland that are most likely to be affected by this? (note - the inheritance tax relates to 'farmland', not just 'farmers')

The tenant farmers will NOT be affected at all by this, and indeed, may benefit. If, as some speculate, those owning farmland will have to sell it off to pay their IHT - then their tenants may be able to purchase it.

That’s exactly what I’m saying!

 

[A1X]

Inheritance tax is a horrible thing

Inheritance tax is the closest thing we have to a progressive tax in this country

 

[Bodian]

That’s exactly what I’m saying!

Excellent!

 

[nevergoagain]

Why should 'poor' farmers (who wish to hand over property worth £2 million - an odd notion of poor) be exempt from the taxes all the rest of us would have to pay?
And not even all the tax.
Just half of it.
And with a higher threshold.

They never had this apparent sense of entitlement before Thatcher gave them special status.

Anyway, I thought you right wingers object in principle to people taking offense on behalf of others.
That's one of Clarkson's mantras against the 'woke' left, is it not?
How does Clarkson stand on taxing farmers I wonder.
Oops! I already knew.

Anyway, a business that is 'cash-poor, low turnover' sounds inefficient to me.
Why should hard working tax payers subsidize such businesses?
And hang on, it isn't just the business, it is the homestead that is being handed on.

I seem to recall some deflection argument about undermining traditional rural life.
Why should these people live an elysian existence, untroubled by market forces?
The need to pull up their knickers and make me a cup of tea, I recon.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course they will, their only ‘riches’ are the land they bought generations ago …. From which some of them are only able to make a reasonable living, nothing more…. Said land which is now unbelievably over valued because, amongst other reasons, multi millionaires and billionaires are buying up as much as they can in order to avoid tax.

It’s a piss poor law, Harry which you don’t seem to understand because you think anyone who has millions of pounds worth of Farm land is rich


So don’t you sigh at me sir!

So the only asset is land, meaning someone owning a £2 million farm is actually poor?
How did they buy it in the first place?
Oh - they inherited it!
.
But aside from the farm, no assets?
They actually live in a two-up two-down terraced house, do they?
They own no livestock, machinery etc?
They have not invested hundreds of thousands of pounds into business infrastructure?
Jeez. What a hopeless, precarious and inefficient way to manage agriculture!
No wonder we import so much stuff...

You could put forward an argument that for farmers the home and the livelihood are interconnected.
What about trawlermen who live on their boats?
Can they just gift them to the kids?
And if farmers chose to conflate home and business why should they expect to be given special treatment?

I accept that farmers have become used to the special status created for them by Thatcher.
But it isn't a right, and it isn't immutable.
And the argument made (not by you) that it is the poor farmers who will be hit hardest is patently untrue.

Oh well, never mind.
I don't really care and I doubt many other people will care
(apart from people gleefully seeing it as a stick with which to beat Labour, enemy of 'country ways' ).

 

[WATFORD zero]

If we really are going to turn this country round, we should really stop tax dodgers and everyone needs to pay their way

The multi millionaire farmers dodging IHT ? - NO NOT THEM !
The Schools dodging VAT by claiming to be Charities ? - NO NOT THEM !
The very rich Pensioners who still claim WFA ? - NO NOT THEM !

But everyone should pay taxes fairly

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

… which is also incredibly wrong. Inheritance tax is a horrible thing…. There’s no reason to think that someone who bought a house under the threshold 40 years ago is likely to have children who can afford £800,000 just because market forces have increased the value of said house.

Ah, so you object to inheritance tax for all of us.

That is an entirely different argument from what I assumed was your support for farmers' inheritance situation as a special case.

If we could all pass on our stuff to family when we die, I'd be happy with that.

I was sympathetic to the argument that just because Dukes and Earls inherited land originally seized from peasants by their ancestors, they should suddenly be taxed and forced to flog their land.

Although I am a national trust member, I don't really see why I have the right to swan about someone's home and lands, just because labour decided to mug them all after the war and hit them with an unexpected and unpayable inheritance tax burden.

My argument is simple- we should all pay the same % inheritance tax on a home.
We should all pay the same % inheritance tax on a business.
What that values of the %s is constitutes a different discussion.

Apologies for not realizing your position (if my new take on your position is correct)

So, @Titanic, do you think nobody should pay any inheritance tax, or that just the farmers should be exempt?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Dear @cjd

I think you need this:

You have been laughing so much that your sides must truly be split asunder.

What is your view?
Farmers should be given special status over inheritance tax?
Anyone who disagrees is hilariously funny?
Pray tell.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So the only asset is land, meaning someone owning a £2 million farm is actually poor?
How did they buy it in the first place?
Oh - they inherited it!
.
But aside from the farm, no assets?
They actually live in a two-up two-down terraced house, do they?
They own no livestock, machinery etc?
They have not invested hundreds of thousands of pounds into business infrastructure?
Jeez. What a hopeless, precarious and inefficient way to manage agriculture!
No wonder we import so much stuff...

You could put forward an argument that for farmers the home and the livelihood are interconnected.
What about trawlermen who live on their boats?
Can they just gift them to the kids?
And if farmers chose to conflate home and business why should they expect to be given special treatment?

I accept that farmers have become used to the special status created for them by Thatcher.
But it isn't a right, and it isn't immutable.
And the argument made (not by you) that it is the poor farmers who will be hit hardest is patently untrue.

Oh well, never mind.
I don't really care and I doubt many other people will care
(apart from people gleefully seeing it as a stick with which to beat Labour, enemy of 'country ways' ).

Sorry to interrupt you in full flow H, but it's not £2M completely tax free for farmers, It's £3M (or three times what every other taxpayer gets). Carry on

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sorry to interrupt you in full flow H, but it's not £2M completely tax free for farmers, It's £3M (or three times what every other taxpayer gets). Carry on

Thanks.

So, I underestimated the strength of my argument by 50%.

Call me generous.