Afghanistan,whats the point ?

[martyn20]

"Moderate Muslims" disagree with Sharia. However the problem with Sharia is that it does not allow for Sharia to be disputed, so usually the people living under it are trapped with no hope of freedom or revolution. You just need to look to countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan et al to realise that certain aspects of Sharia have no place in a modern society.

What is a "moderate muslim"? Muslims Against Sharia Blog

So what happens when the Muslim Brotherhood are democratically chosen to lead a country?

 

[looney]

So would you class the now democratically chosen leaders of several countries the Muslim Brotherhood as an extremist group as the previous poster did?

Sort of. When the Eastern Europeans got Democracy, they started electing all sorts of rightwing populist garbage, then after having a taste of them in power they threw them out or their support wained. I expect similar to happen in the middle East generally.

Yea the Muslim goatfuckerhood are a nasty bunch of theorists, but theyve not said they will get rid of democracy so the more they behave like arseholes the more likely they will be out on their ear.

Democracy takes time to bed down. It was yonks after the Glorious revolution in England that women got the vote. The point is is it going in the right direction?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The headline news is all about those killed in action , perhaps we should reflect for a moment on a much larger number of those seriously wounded who have to live the rest of their lives wheelchair bound , disfigured or missing limbs.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Your right and this very thing with Sharia is going on this country. It's wrong and it has no place in the UK. If these people want Sharia law then I suggest they move to a country where it is the law. It's a shame because these people are giving all decent muslims a bad name.

Can't and won't argue with that.

 

[goldstone]

There is no point. We should never have got involved. Now that we are involved, we should get out immediately. What we are doing there (or attempting to do) isnn't worth one single British life.

We have no business interfering in the affairs of other countries.

 

[daveinprague]

Sharia courts in the UK amount to non criminal, domestic issues, where only a judgement can be made if both parties agree to it being judged by Sharia Law in the first place.
Much the same as the Beth Din courts operated by the Jewish religion in England for decades...


I cant think of any issues pre the attack on America, that the UK had a problem with muslims. The only reason we have issues with muslims now, is because of our ill advised journey into Iraq, and Afghanistan fighting wars on behalf of the USA.

 

[Twizzle]

Still a leftover from blair and bush.
Bush made things way worse when he sad it was a Crusade. At that point all sensible people should have called for withdrawel of any support or involvement in it.

 

[dingodan]

48–119 CC
1998
U.S. INTERESTS IN THE CENTRAL ASIAN REPUBLICS HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.htm

STATEMENT OF JOHN J. MARESCA, VICE PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, Unocal CORPORATION (1998)

The only other possible route is across Afghanistan, which has of course its own unique challenges. The country has been involved in bitter warfare for almost two decades, and is still divided by civil war. From the outset, we have made it clear that construction of the pipeline we have proposed across Afghanistan could not begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders, and our company.

Last October, the Central Asia Gas Pipeline Consortium, called CentGas, in which Unocal holds an interest, was formed to develop a gas pipeline which will link Turkmenistan's vast Dauletabad gas field with markets in Pakistan and possibly India...As with the proposed Central Asia oil pipeline, CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized Afghanistan Government is in place.

And that is the point of Afghanistan.

 

[BrightonPara]

I take it this is another 'Arm Chair General' asking the question??

Having been there and done it, aswell as having a couple of tour t-shirts... then yes there is a massive point to being there. First and most important - If we stopped the fight over in Afghan, then do you not think they would have the time to re-build and then head to the UK, Europe, US??
If he history has tought this country a very important lesson it is - not to wait for the war to come to our front door before we do anything about it

Second - On winning the 'fire fight' and over running an enemy position I have viewed for my very own eyes the bodies of the 'enemy', one lad (no older than 21) with half his clothes blown away from a grenade blast had an Arsenal tatoo on his lower leg. On another occasion after finding 'Taliban' radios we listerned in to hear 2 guys talking to each other in 'Brummie accsents'. The very people of our own sociaty are going back 'Home' to fight their war, which is surely better than them being here and picking on un-armed civis.

Do not think what the Brave guys and girls are doing over there is not important or doesnt have a point. The british media ..... (which lets face it is the only way most back home hear about what goes on over there) are very clever and are also under strict rules about what they can and cant say over there. Not is all as it seems!

 

[ifuhatepalacestandup]

I take it this is another 'Arm Chair General' asking the question??

Having been there and done it, aswell as having a couple of tour t-shirts... then yes there is a massive point to being there. First and most important - If we stopped the fight over in Afghan, then do you not think they would have the time to re-build and then head to the UK, Europe, US??
If he history has tought this country a very important lesson it is - not to wait for the war to come to our front door before we do anything about it

Second - On winning the 'fire fight' and over running an enemy position I have viewed for my very own eyes the bodies of the 'enemy', one lad (no older than 21) with half his clothes blown away from a grenade blast had an Arsenal tatoo on his lower leg. On another occasion after finding 'Taliban' radios we listerned in to hear 2 guys talking to each other in 'Brummie accsents'. The very people of our own sociaty are going back 'Home' to fight their war, which is surely better than them being here and picking on un-armed civis.

Do not think what the Brave guys and girls are doing over there is not important or doesnt have a point. The british media ..... (which lets face it is the only way most back home hear about what goes on over there) are very clever and are also under strict rules about what they can and cant say over there. Not is all as it seems!

maybe the one post on this thread that has real insight .

 

[stripeyshark]

But the Muslim Brotherhood are not AQ or a similar extremist group, they are Muslim but not extremists

 

[dingodan]

If we stopped the fight over in Afghan, then do you not think they would have the time to re-build and then head to the UK, Europe, US?? If he history has tought this country a very important lesson it is - not to wait for the war to come to our front door before we do anything about it

"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing."

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1954.

 

[dingodan]

maybe the one post on this thread that has real insight .

Incite.

 

[martyn20]

Please explain?

 

[daveinprague]

Sorry, but, I had no beef with the Taliban. Americans did. Countries in Europe, have been attacked because of involvement with the Americans. Nobody denies the bravery of our men and women, put into an impossible position, just personally, Id rather you werent putting your lives at risk on my behalf.

 

[Twizzle]

(duplicate post)

 

[Twizzle]

I take it this is another 'Arm Chair General' asking the question??

Having been there and done it, aswell as having a couple of tour t-shirts... then yes there is a massive point to being there. First and most important - If we stopped the fight over in Afghan, then do you not think they would have the time to re-build and then head to the UK, Europe, US??
If he history has tought this country a very important lesson it is - not to wait for the war to come to our front door before we do anything about it

Second - On winning the 'fire fight' and over running an enemy position I have viewed for my very own eyes the bodies of the 'enemy', one lad (no older than 21) with half his clothes blown away from a grenade blast had an Arsenal tatoo on his lower leg. On another occasion after finding 'Taliban' radios we listerned in to hear 2 guys talking to each other in 'Brummie accsents'. The very people of our own sociaty are going back 'Home' to fight their war, which is surely better than them being here and picking on un-armed civis.

Do not think what the Brave guys and girls are doing over there is not important or doesnt have a point. The british media ..... (which lets face it is the only way most back home hear about what goes on over there) are very clever and are also under strict rules about what they can and cant say over there. Not is all as it seems!

with due respect what evidence is there that they'd be coming here if we (you) weren't there?
We created a need for them to war, regardless of where they come frlm.
The West provided arms to them to fight Russians before this.
There is a vested need for you to believe in the fight.
They are defending a homeland against invasion. They have been told by Bush that our fight has a religious basis too, that we are there in a "crusade".
That you see a football fan tattoo means what? The Prem is followed worldwide.

Tbh I doubt your credibility even as a witness on the spot.
None of the military are there believing the causeis wrong.

 

[Twizzle]

I take it this is another 'Arm Chair General' asking the question??

Having been there and done it, aswell as having a couple of tour t-shirts... then yes there is a massive point to being there. First and most important - If we stopped the fight over in Afghan, then do you not think they would have the time to re-build and then head to the UK, Europe, US??
If he history has tought this country a very important lesson it is - not to wait for the war to come to our front door before we do anything about it

Second - On winning the 'fire fight' and over running an enemy position I have viewed for my very own eyes the bodies of the 'enemy', one lad (no older than 21) with half his clothes blown away from a grenade blast had an Arsenal tatoo on his lower leg. On another occasion after finding 'Taliban' radios we listerned in to hear 2 guys talking to each other in 'Brummie accsents'. The very people of our own sociaty are going back 'Home' to fight their war, which is surely better than them being here and picking on un-armed civis.

Do not think what the Brave guys and girls are doing over there is not important or doesnt have a point. The british media ..... (which lets face it is the only way most back home hear about what goes on over there) are very clever and are also under strict rules about what they can and cant say over there. Not is all as it seems!

with due respect what evidence is there that they'd be coming here if we (you) weren't there?
We created a need for them to war, regardless of where they come frlm.
The West provided arms to them to fight Russians before this.
There is a vested need for you to believe in the fight.
They are defending a homeland against invasion. They have been told by Bush that our fight has a religious basis too, that we are there in a "crusade".
That you see a football fan tattoo means what? The Prem is followed worldwide.

Tbh I doubt your credibility even as a witness on the spot.
None of the military are there believing the causeis wrong.

 

[daveinprague]

There are entire provinces controlled by the taliban in Afghanistan. The recent attacks on the airbase in Helmond, and the massacre of civilians in Northern Helmond this week, where the governor admits, he doesnt know the details as the area is controlled by the taliban, shows that we dont have control, even of the areas where we control, so we are not going to win any long term victory, so rather than lose our men and women for something we will walk away from eventually, bring them home, to protect our shores. it really isnt worth another lost life.
The Russians were fighting the same people with a much bigger army, and less stringent about geneva conventions etc, and they didnt get anywhere after they 'Invaded', although its always puzzled me how it was an invasion when invited by the president Najibullah to come and help defend the country against the taliban, and the Russians fought with the Afghan army, so the invasion bollocks set us up from the beginning.

The taliban with brummie accents story has been around for a while, and if these cases of British muslims fighting in Aghanistan are true, that sort of suggests to me they are fighting what they believe is an invasion on a muslim country, otherwise, they would be in England causing mayhem surely?

 

[dingodan]

"We know of their deep belief in God, and we are confident that their struggle will succeed. That land over there is yours. You will go back to it one day, because your fight will prevail and you'll have your homes and your mosques back again, because your cause is right and God is on your side."
-Zbigniew Brzezinski, 1979.