[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

peterward said:

You're really becoming a complete bore.

And a deluded, diversionary bore with it.

Youre simping for a convited sexual assaulter, convicted tax fraud cheat, a serial bullshitter with over 30k verified lies in first term, an insurrectionist, friend of Epstein. He is that person, that is him.

Rory Stewart is a former politician, whose political opinion is his own and has nothing to do with anyone else or their charities whatsover, He was right on the piece of shit you try and cover for, and like the good little brainless propagandist you are, you're trying to muck rake with non related bullshit to divert from that simple truth.

Whats youre next installment of nonsense? He's clearly got a grudge as he bought a VW ID4 and not a Tesla?

Do jog off, its tiresome.

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peterward said:

At the end if this, around 3:20 but worth a listen to all.

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wellquickwoody said:

From social media……

A man sits across from power. His fingers tighten around the arms of his chair.

The bully makes no effort to mask his contempt. He sits rigidly, eyes burning with an unnatural intensity, fingers twitching on the armrest of his chair. When he speaks, it is not a conversation but an eruption — words spat like bullets, contempt laced through every syllable.

The outburst does not abate. It is not a speech but an assault, designed not to persuade but to disorient, to cow, to humiliate. The bully leans forward, slamming his fists against the table. His face reddens, his voice sharpens. He moves from insults to threats, from history to grandiosity. The great country he leads will no longer be mistreated, he says. Those days are over. The people have had enough. His words are not arguments — they’re sentences, verdicts, pronouncements of doom.

“You are nothing,” says the bully, not quite shouting. One of his lackeys smirks. “You think you are independent? You are a failure, a disgrace.” Behind him, the immense generals stand silent, unmoving. They don’t need to speak; their presence says everything. The visitor looks at them and understands what is being offered. This is not diplomacy. It’s a choice between submission and annihilation.

The visitor is allowed no rebuttal. He does not speak until the torrent of invective slows, and even then, his words are weak, uncertain. He tries to protest, to insist that he and his country are not to blame, that he has done all he could to maintain peace. The bully’s response is bitter, scornful laughter, as if the very idea is absurd. He rises suddenly—pacing now, shaking his head, muttering to himself in a fevered rant. “You will sign, or we will act. You will agree, or you will cease to exist.”

There is no need to say what that means. The visitor has seen the faces of the men behind him. He knows that even if he signs, this meeting is not a negotiation but an autopsy. He has been given no options, only demands. If he yields, his nation dies slowly. If he resists, it dies swiftly. There will be no help coming.

The year was 1938. The visitor was the chancellor of Austria, Kurt Schuschnigg. The bully was Adolf Hitler. The place was the Berghof, Hitler’s alpine retreat.

============================

The analogy is shocking. We need to know our history.

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peterward said:

Senate live session on Ukraine just started. Sanders talking

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wellquickwoody said:

From social media……

A man sits across from power. His fingers tighten around the arms of his chair.

The bully makes no effort to mask his contempt. He sits rigidly, eyes burning with an unnatural intensity, fingers twitching on the armrest of his chair. When he speaks, it is not a conversation but an eruption — words spat like bullets, contempt laced through every syllable.

The outburst does not abate. It is not a speech but an assault, designed not to persuade but to disorient, to cow, to humiliate. The bully leans forward, slamming his fists against the table. His face reddens, his voice sharpens. He moves from insults to threats, from history to grandiosity. The great country he leads will no longer be mistreated, he says. Those days are over. The people have had enough. His words are not arguments — they’re sentences, verdicts, pronouncements of doom.

“You are nothing,” says the bully, not quite shouting. One of his lackeys smirks. “You think you are independent? You are a failure, a disgrace.” Behind him, the immense generals stand silent, unmoving. They don’t need to speak; their presence says everything. The visitor looks at them and understands what is being offered. This is not diplomacy. It’s a choice between submission and annihilation.

The visitor is allowed no rebuttal. He does not speak until the torrent of invective slows, and even then, his words are weak, uncertain. He tries to protest, to insist that he and his country are not to blame, that he has done all he could to maintain peace. The bully’s response is bitter, scornful laughter, as if the very idea is absurd. He rises suddenly—pacing now, shaking his head, muttering to himself in a fevered rant. “You will sign, or we will act. You will agree, or you will cease to exist.”

There is no need to say what that means. The visitor has seen the faces of the men behind him. He knows that even if he signs, this meeting is not a negotiation but an autopsy. He has been given no options, only demands. If he yields, his nation dies slowly. If he resists, it dies swiftly. There will be no help coming.

The year was 1938. The visitor was the chancellor of Austria, Kurt Schuschnigg. The bully was Adolf Hitler. The place was the Berghof, Hitler’s alpine retreat.

============================

The analogy is shocking. We need to know our history.

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Shropshire Seagull said:

When Liz Truss became the UK leader and introduced some poor decisions that were damaging to the UK it took about 40 days for her to be ejected from power.

I have no idea how the US constitution works but surely they must have a mechanism for Trump to be removed? A vote of no confidence, type thing.

Of course, Vance taking over could be a frying pan to fire move anyway. There must be many Yanks asking themselves, "what have I done"?

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cunning fergus said:

In short, are we a country ready for a war with Russia? I don’t think we are, nor do I think is Europe. Recognising that reality does not make me a deluded trump supporter.

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cunning fergus said:

Neither does recognising Trump has been consistent on his views concerning military funding by Europe since 2017. The fact that there are people gnashing their teeth about Trump on that is delusional

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cunning fergus said:

, if we (in the U.K. and Western Europe) have been betrayed by anyone it’s our political establishment in last 20 years……….fail to prepare?

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cunning fergus said:

Are we filling the military aid funding gap left by US? At what cost?
Are we upping our defence budget? At what cost?
Are we increasing size of armed forces? How does that work?

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cunning fergus said:

In short, are we a country ready for a war with Russia? I don’t think we are, nor do I think is Europe. Recognising that reality does not make me a deluded trump supporter.

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peterward said:

Fantastic strong worded speech.

Claude Malhuret, French Senator in the French parliament.

Dubbed into English..i like this fella

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The Clamp said:

Translation;

If Zelenskyy surrenders to Putin and hands Ukraine over to the U.S. to divvy up with Russia. Hands over the mineral rights etc, Trump will stop enabling Russia to destroy Ukraine and its people.


I mean, effectively if that happens Ukraine ceases to exist. All it’s soldiers are put to the sword, all its children are kidnapped and raised as Russians, and all the women are raped and slaughtered.

100%

I’m with you. the only difference is I’d sink it and happily tell Russia we did it. And I’d tell them if they come back I’ll sink any ship that comes our way.

And bring your lunch, I’ll have that and all.

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Binney on acid said:

Can't someone supply the orange one with intelligence ? He could do with some !

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wellquickwoody said:

From social media……

A man sits across from power. His fingers tighten around the arms of his chair.

The bully makes no effort to mask his contempt. He sits rigidly, eyes burning with an unnatural intensity, fingers twitching on the armrest of his chair. When he speaks, it is not a conversation but an eruption — words spat like bullets, contempt laced through every syllable.

The outburst does not abate. It is not a speech but an assault, designed not to persuade but to disorient, to cow, to humiliate. The bully leans forward, slamming his fists against the table. His face reddens, his voice sharpens. He moves from insults to threats, from history to grandiosity. The great country he leads will no longer be mistreated, he says. Those days are over. The people have had enough. His words are not arguments — they’re sentences, verdicts, pronouncements of doom.

“You are nothing,” says the bully, not quite shouting. One of his lackeys smirks. “You think you are independent? You are a failure, a disgrace.” Behind him, the immense generals stand silent, unmoving. They don’t need to speak; their presence says everything. The visitor looks at them and understands what is being offered. This is not diplomacy. It’s a choice between submission and annihilation.

The visitor is allowed no rebuttal. He does not speak until the torrent of invective slows, and even then, his words are weak, uncertain. He tries to protest, to insist that he and his country are not to blame, that he has done all he could to maintain peace. The bully’s response is bitter, scornful laughter, as if the very idea is absurd. He rises suddenly—pacing now, shaking his head, muttering to himself in a fevered rant. “You will sign, or we will act. You will agree, or you will cease to exist.”

There is no need to say what that means. The visitor has seen the faces of the men behind him. He knows that even if he signs, this meeting is not a negotiation but an autopsy. He has been given no options, only demands. If he yields, his nation dies slowly. If he resists, it dies swiftly. There will be no help coming.

The year was 1938. The visitor was the chancellor of Austria, Kurt Schuschnigg. The bully was Adolf Hitler. The place was the Berghof, Hitler’s alpine retreat.

============================

The analogy is shocking. We need to know our history.

Click to expand...

cunning fergus said:

Regardless, he is the democratically elected POTUS, and nothing will change that on this thread or in the U.K. more broadly. I can understand why many consider his conduct and decisions on Ukraine to be reprehensible, but geo politics is complex and at the end of it where does that leave the U.K?

It’s in the U.K. people on this thread, (most likely) have a stake of influence or are most affected. If we are to believe the worst case is Trump walks away from Ukraine, what are OUR elected politicians going to o?

Are we filling the military aid funding gap left by US? At what cost?
Are we upping our defence budget? At what cost?
Are we increasing size of armed forces? How does that work?

In short, are we a country ready for a war with Russia? I don’t think we are, nor do I think is Europe. Recognising that reality does not make me a deluded trump supporter.

Neither does recognising Trump has been consistent on his views concerning military funding by Europe since 2017. The fact that there are people gnashing their teeth about Trump on that is delusional, if we (in the U.K. and Western Europe) have been betrayed by anyone it’s our political establishment in last 20 years……….fail to prepare?

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Doug-ees-evil said:

Saying it out loud now.. The world as we've known it has changed very quickly..

Macron says Europe needs to be 'ready' for the US to 'not be at our side'​

Macron said Russia cannot be taken at its word. “We cannot forget Russia started its invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and we negotiated the Minsk Accords ceasefire,” he said. He said France will continue to meet with allies with the goal of signing a “lasting, solid, verifiable peace agreement”. He said he has been working with European partners and Ukraine on this plan, and that he went to “advocate” for the plan when he visited Donald Trump last week.

“I want to believe that the US will stand by our side, but we have to be ready for that not to be the case,” he said.

Macron open to extending France’s nuclear umbrella to European allies as US reconsiders Ukraine funding – live

French president says he will debate offer at European summit to be attended by Ukraine’s president Zelenskyy

www.theguardian.com

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Deportivo Seagull said:

Putin is on his knees. The defence strategy in place, until Trump turned up, was for the defence of Europe against the Russia of old. This isn’t the case now as the disastrous attempt by Russia to invade Ukraine has shown. The old Russia would have steamrolled through Ukraine. Europe as it stands, with the right strategy and investment, Europe doesn’t have anything to fear from Russia. The question Europe has is does it have the willing to push Russia out of Ukraine, not can it defend against Russia. Russia is ready or willing to take on Europe because they are f***ed as three years doing not a lot, other than killing indiscriminately, in Ukraine has shown

and yes you are bore and your military knowledge is embarrassing poor.

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

I hope you are right.
The fact that Russia is still pissing about in Ukraine having lost untold numbers of troops and kit suggests you are right.

I presume we are a long way from a nuclear war at present.
Who would Putin bomb, after all?

How much control do we have over all the nuclear weapons stationed here (most owned by the US)?
If Trump can prevent our retaliatory use of nuclear weapons if Putin drops one on London,
we have no deterrent.....
just a thought.

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

The only downside to Europe 'taking back control' of its defense is the imminent re-armament of Germany.
I just hope the nation has recovered sufficiently from it's Nazi spasm to have the maturity to know what to do with a massive arsenal,
a nation with a level of technical competence that makes Britain look like 'Holiday On The Buses',
and a people with a cultural clear-mindedness that makes the Brits seem daffy and lacking in national pride.
Calling @Herr Tubthumper

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Harry Wilson's tackle said:

I hope you are right.
The fact that Russia is still pissing about in Ukraine having lost untold numbers of troops and kit suggests you are right.

I presume we are a long way from a nuclear war at present.
Who would Putin bomb, after all?

How much control do we have over all the nuclear weapons stationed here (most owned by the US)?
If Trump can prevent our retaliatory use of nuclear weapons if Putin drops one on London,
we have no deterrent.....
just a thought.

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raymondo said:

.....

And not one criticism of Russia or Putin.
Trump's had a relationship with Putin and Russia for decades: business deals, money coming in to fund political positions etc.
I don't think this can be fixed by Zelenskiy saying 'sorry' (and for what ).

These attacks were all planned, and in plain sight.
I would love to be proved wrong, and that Trump will pivot, but at the moment I don't see it.

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raymondo said:

Thank you for posting. It's never the end of history... history repeats. Unfortunately humans seem unable to fully learn from it.
Thanks again.

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SouthSaxon said:

Paul Warburg’s latest offers some thoughts to be positive about.

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marlowe said:

It wasn't just Trump's lack of criticism of Russia and Putin during that meeting it was his distasteful portrayal of Putin as a victim and expressing his outrage at all the unfair treatment he believes Putin has had to endure.

In sharp contrast, prior to that, when Zelensky was showing Trump photographs of some of the Ukrainian victims of Putin's barbarity Trump appeared to be completely unmoved, disinterested and even bored by what Zelensky was showing him. Trump expressed no similar outrage at what the Ukrainians in those photos had endured.

I also noticed when Trump mentioned the soldiers who had been killed he mentioned the Russian soldiers first and the Ukrainian soldiers second, which was also very telling regarding his priorities and allegiances.

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