[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[jcdenton08]

Isn't it just. Time for Starmer to grow a pair and put the boot into Trump and stop being simpering and well, basically wet.

Absolutely can’t and shouldn’t do this. We are on a knife edge, he is displaying perfect diplomacy. Showing full respect to the US, a critical trade partner and ally, whilst simultaneously voicing and demonstrating unwavering support for Ukraine. WHILST simultaneously improving our relations with France, Germany and key European nations.

He’s been fantastic with this.

Not a fan of several of his domestic policies, but he’s absolutely spot on and a credit to statesmanship for how he is handling these very dangerous international affairs.

 

[sparkie]

Putin gets his man, Krasnov, to be US President along with a Grima Wormtongue in the White House.

The CIA must have a plan to deal with this Russian attack. European Intelligence services must have information.

 

[Eric the meek]

Tesla sales in Europe and China are collapsing.

Bit of an own goal Elon?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Tesla sales in Europe and China are collapsing.

Bit of an own goal Elon?

Excellent news. And after a number of people on this thread How best to boycott usa goods insisted there was absolutely no point trying to cut back on what we buy

 

[jcdenton08]

Excellent news. And after a number of people on this thread How best to boycott usa goods insisted there was absolutely no point trying to cut back on what we buy

A typically snarky reply, which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the bigger picture, clinging to a tiny win. Like being proud of dodging of a snowball during an avalanche.

I am one of those who has said there is little point in attempting a blanket boycott of American products. I explained why here:

It’s practically impossible, because if you drill down far enough, forgive the pun, billions of things have American components or were manufactured using American components, or were sourced from ingredients produced by American-owned companies, and so on.

The phone you’re typing on, the software that runs the browser/OS, the servers that host the websites. This site used Xenforo software, for example, who are a British company with an American parent company.

It’s really not that easy, because their economy is so massive you’re basically supporting it no matter what. Them and China.

And here:

Out of interest, where would I buy a nice refreshing can of Grans, Solo, ICA Cola, Faxe Kondi, Fritz, Zingi or Trocadero out of interest? Or grab a quick bite at Max, Big Bite, Peppes Pizza, Deli de Luca, Sibylla, Fafa’s or Joe and the Juice on my lunch break?

What should I do if absolutely everyone I wish to speak to uses Facebook, X, Instagram, Messenger or WhatsApp. Refuse to speak to them until they download “Threema”?

Sorry, I can’t watch that YouTube video of the new Albion Unlocked episode mate, would you mind uploading it to YLE Arena or RUV?

Okay team, I know our tech guys have spent ages setting up our working from home interface, making sure it complies with GDPR best practices, has backups and failsafes to ensure limited wasted hours due to technical issues, but today we’ll be hosting the team meeting via “Whaller”. What do you mean “what is Whaller?”

Sent from my Tuxedo Computer

I’ll lay it out clearly in conclusion now.

I am pleased that Tesla sales are reportedly down, because Musk is a shit and it’s his company.

The reason I have taken umbrage at your petty post is that it completely disregards the points I’ve made, and is attempting to look clever and smug.

To reiterates the points I’ve made above, it is entirely possible to boycott specific brands. Which people are doing with Tesla, because of Elon Musk.

There is a HUGE difference between buying a high cost luxury item like a new Tesla, and say, watching a video on YouTube in your pants on the sofa. Both are supporting American commerce.

Can you see what I’m getting at?

Tesla sales being down isn’t representing some cultural shift towards boycotting American products. It is a tiny fraction of wealthy people opting to buy a different (possibly American) make of car due to their dislike of Elon Musk.

To single this out as “making a difference” as if some grassroots movement has had any effect is intentionally disingenuous in my opinion.

Oh and obligatory

 

[Eric the meek]

Excellent news. And after a number of people on this thread How best to boycott usa goods insisted there was absolutely no point trying to cut back on what we buy

To save me trawling back through pages of trolling, can you share their names please?

I'm sure they will appreciate the valuable feedback.

 

[jcdenton08]

Excellent news. And after a number of people on this thread How best to boycott usa goods insisted there was absolutely no point trying to cut back on what we buy

Don’t make me slap you down again…

 

[jcdenton08]

To save me trawling back through pages of trolling, can you share their names please?

I'm sure they will appreciate the valuable feedback.

*sigh* how quickly disinformation spreads

 

[peterward]

Absolutely can’t and shouldn’t do this. We are on a knife edge, he is displaying perfect diplomacy. Showing full respect to the US, a critical trade partner and ally, whilst simultaneously voicing and demonstrating unwavering support for Ukraine. WHILST simultaneously improving our relations with France, Germany and key European nations.

He’s been fantastic with this.

Not a fan of several of his domestic policies, but he’s absolutely spot on and a credit to statesmanship for how he is handling these very dangerous international affairs.

Totally agree.

There may well be a day when this happens, but that day isnt today and tempered assessment and calm thinking is required. Starmer was having a bit of a mare domestically until 2 weeks ago imho, he hasnt put a foot wrong internationally in the last 2 weeks and has shown good leadership, whatever your party stripes.

Its still not 100% certain what Trumps end goal is, it looks like a combination of part being pro Russian, and part just winging it and making it up as he goes along, maybe its unlikely, but as his personal ratings dive, and being an ego driven narcissist, he could still do a 180degree turn and say all this was just to force European defence spending and to get Ukraine further on side and both sides to table, then claim victory. His personality flaws will make it harder for him to plough on with ratings plunging and increasing vitriol, however much he'd like to.

I thought Starmers deliberate comments and subtle put down of JD Vances "20,000 troops from random countries who havent fought wars for 30 or 40 years" before PMQs yesterday, was brilliant. He's walking the tightrope well right now, and whilst theres still a chance to get the US back into the traditional camp, the actual leaders in europe need to try as much as they can.

Antti Trump statements can be left to fringe political figures or journalists for now. Europe needs to buy time and try and work around Trumps circle to bring him back until its inevitable hes gone for good.

 

[WATFORD zero]

A typically snarky reply, which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the bigger picture, clinging to a tiny win. Like being proud of dodging of a snowball during an avalanche.

I am one of those who has said there is little point in attempting a blanket boycott of American products. I explained why here:




And here:



I’ll lay it out clearly in conclusion now.

I am pleased that Tesla sales are reportedly down, because Musk is a shit and it’s his company.

The reason I have taken umbrage at your petty post is that it completely disregards the points I’ve made, and is attempting to look clever and smug.

To reiterates the points I’ve made above, it is entirely possible to boycott specific brands. Which people are doing with Tesla, because of Elon Musk.

There is a HUGE difference between buying a high cost luxury item like a new Tesla, and say, watching a video on YouTube in your pants on the sofa. Both are supporting American commerce.

Can you see what I’m getting at?

Tesla sales being down isn’t representing some cultural shift towards boycotting American products. It is a tiny fraction of wealthy people opting to buy a different (possibly American) make of car due to their dislike of Elon Musk.

To single this out as “making a difference” as if some grassroots movement has had any effect is intentionally disingenuous in my opinion.

Oh and obligatory

And throughout that thread and this I have consistently said an all out boycott is impossible (and somewhere I said only an idiot would say otherwise).

But people reducing what they buy is having an effect, which is why I posted it the link to Tesla above. I would still encourage people to lessen what they buy rather than try and pick fault with anybody's attempts, as that would be the very definition of someone 'clinging to a tiny win' rather than seeing the bigger picture.

I'm off out for the afternoon and have a nice afternoon yourself. I know you would be disappointed if I didn't give you the obligatory

 

[happypig]

Putin gets his man, Krasnov, to be US President along with a Grima Wormtongue in the White House.

The CIA must have a plan to deal with this Russian attack. European Intelligence services must have information.

Interesting take on this from some feller on Peston last night; when asked if Trump was a Russian asset he said he thought it unlikely. His reason being that if, in some way, Putin managed to get an agent into the presidency, then the agent would be much more subtle and play the long game. Trump has gone at it like a bull in a china shop; the fact that people are asking questions about it almost proves that he's just a narcissistic idiot.

 

[peterward]

This is as alarming as it isnt surprising. Putin has being trying to engineer Ukrainian elections (he can manipulate as he did in Moldova and Romania) for months. If this is true of what trumps aims are, it is literally doing Putins bidding. Temporary ceasfire without peace negotiaitons to try and force and election that Russia can manipulate and Trump can try and get in place a more pliable puppet.

It needs to be called out widely and loudly.

Top Trump allies hold secret talks with Zelenskyy’s Ukrainian opponents

As Washington ramps up its pressure on Zelenskyy to step aside, his rivals are talking to Trump’s team.

www.politico.eu

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

This is as alarming as it isnt surprising. Putin has being trying to engineer Ukrainian elections (he can manipulate as he did in Moldova and Romania) for months. If this is true of what trumps aims are, it is literally doing Putins bidding. Temporary ceasfire without peace negotiaitons to try and force and election that Russia can manipulate and Trump can try and get in place a more pliable puppet.

It needs to be called out widely and loudly.

Top Trump allies hold secret talks with Zelenskyy’s Ukrainian opponents

As Washington ramps up its pressure on Zelenskyy to step aside, his rivals are talking to Trump’s team.

www.politico.eu

"Know your enemy."

Trump will never be anything but bad news for Ukraine. Everything has to be about mitigating his malign influence.

 

[raymondo]

Totally agree.

There may well be a day when this happens, but that day isnt today and tempered assessment and calm thinking is required. Starmer was having a bit of a mare domestically until 2 weeks ago imho, he hasnt put a foot wrong internationally in the last 2 weeks and has shown good leadership, whatever your party stripes.

Its still not 100% certain what Trumps end goal is, it looks like a combination of part being pro Russian, and part just winging it and making it up as he goes along, maybe its unlikely, but as his personal ratings dive, and being an ego driven narcissist, he could still do a 180degree turn and say all this was just to force European defence spending and to get Ukraine further on side and both sides to table, then claim victory. His personality flaws will make it harder for him to plough on with ratings plunging and increasing vitriol, however much he'd like to.

I thought Starmers deliberate comments and subtle put down of JD Vances "20,000 troops from random countries who havent fought wars for 30 or 40 years" before PMQs yesterday, was brilliant. He's walking the tightrope well right now, and whilst theres still a chance to get the US back into the traditional camp, the actual leaders in europe need to try as much as they can.

Antti Trump statements can be left to fringe political figures or journalists for now. Europe needs to buy time and try and work around Trumps circle to bring him back until its inevitable hes gone for good.

And we may know your last line in the next week or two.

 

[raymondo]

Good as always. From about 13.30 there's a video of an American military volunteer in Ukraine laying into Trump's treatment of Zelenskiy.
From 19.30 on, Jake shows Solyevs recent blah blah and explains why it's true.

 

[The Clamp]

Been reading about the sudden European effort to protect Ukraine, including the Sky Shield.

Better late than never but why has it taken so long and Trump to stir the shit to get us moving?

IMO our lack of foresight and cowardice allowed Putin to gain the confidence to cross into Ukraine for his full invasion.
NATO did nothing as his troops amassed on the border. Frankly, pathetic.

So why have we been sitting on our hands for three years?

Get a f***ing move on.

 

[A1X]

Been reading about the sudden European effort to protect Ukraine, including the Sky Shield.

Better late than never but why has it taken so long and Trump to stir the shit to get us moving?

IMO our lack of foresight and cowardice allowed Putin to gain the confidence to cross into Ukraine for his full invasion.
NATO did nothing as his troops amassed on the border. Frankly, pathetic.

So why have we been sitting on our hands for three years?

Get a f***ing move on.

Because some people need to be shown the thing before they will believe it. Many (too many) in Europe (and London in particular) have long just assumed the US would stay on side. They needed to see it happen to believe the US has turned, and the Zelensky ambush was that tipping point.

But now the supertanker has started to turn, it won’t turn back readily. Hence why the next moderately sane US president will be left with an inheritance of a Europe much more independent of the US and so less interested in taking orders.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Because some people need to be shown the thing before they will believe it. Many (too many) in Europe (and London in particular) have long just assumed the US would stay on side. They needed to see it happen to believe the US has turned, and the Zelensky ambush was that tipping point.

But now the supertanker has started to turn, it won’t turn back readily. Hence why the next moderately sane US president will be left with an inheritance of a Europe much more independent of the US and so less interested in taking orders.

Been reading about the people behind Trump, Musk, Vance - the people who write the ideological shite that underpins their political actions. In all honesty, I don't think there'll be another US president (as in elected in free and fair elections). These people are openly anti-democratic, will dismantle US democracy and unless there's a coup or civil war, will utterly transform America into a dictatorship.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

 

[GoldstoneVintage]