ROSM
Well-known member
Well apart from if you could get that wrong, it's easy to believe you could be wrong about other things too.
The measure of a person is how they accept being corrected. You come across as, well, and bit petulant
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[Politics] Donald Trump, US President
- Thread starter Zeberdi
- Start date
The measure of a person is how they accept being corrected. You come across as, well, and bit petulant
Vance logic = banning guns to stop almost daily mass shootings is bad while countries becoming more reliant on immigrants from afar after cutting ties with local neighbours is good.
Also countries should not take refugees while more appear due to actions of the west.
Also countries should not take refugees while more appear due to actions of the west.
You know they felt they had to leave the BBC because they were being made to give equal voice to evidence free idiots as the experts right?
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,370
Precisely. Trump's US cannot be trusted all the time he is in power. His arrogance and stupidity over Gaza alone is a perfect example of why we need to withdraw and end agreements with a partner who will sell us down the river.
European leaders set to hold emergency summit on Ukraine
The UK PM, who is expected to attend, said it was a "once in a generation moment for our national security".www.bbc.com
Interesting move. I really hope Europe starts to marginalize the US.
I'm happy to start the process of winding down having US bases on British soil too. Not sure if these have been permanently " Gifted " to the US or there are lease agreements in place? Either way we need to start the process of getting rid.
"If you are not with us, you are against us "
Last edited:
- Oct 20, 2022
- 7,955
- Thread starter
- #11,945
But under Trump, they no longer do which has an impact. After decades of foreign intervention and international cooperation with its allies, sudden US withdrawal of the institutional frameworks within which Western leaders have operated on the global stage since the ‘new order’ after the Second WW is a reckless deconstruction of many of the very things that can manage global events : climate change cooperation, international world health and foreign aid, international trade agreements, international law, and collective defence of Western values. That was my point.
Trump isn’t withdrawing from these institutions because of inequitable financial contributions, he is withdrawing because he is a narcissistic autocrat and pursuing an extreme isolationist agenda to please his right wing MAGA supporters.
He thinks he can rule the World on the “Art of the Deal” that only he can negotiate.
That is a very dangerous world view held by a megalomaniac who couldn’t even manage his own business empire without losing billions of dollars, having numerous hotel bankruptcies and failed casinos and destroying the lives of those that stood in his way.
I didn’t vote for him, neither did half the electorate or anyone in the rest of the Western world so we don’t have to agree with the ‘change’.
Undermining NATO’s support for Ukraine is not just about funding for Trump, he literally has said European security is Europe’s problem, not the US’s. Part of his isolationist agenda across a wide range of policy areas and Project 25. When Russia‘s beef is with the expansion of NATO (and the root of their aggression toward Ukraine, then when the largest member of NATO is constantly signalling he will not come to the aid of NATO countries if Russia attacks them IS undermining the very principle upon which NATO was founded - COLLECTIVE DEFENCE enshrined in Article 5.
No one is arguing that member States need to make the contributions more equitable but Trump’s agenda goes further than that.
No it is not, it is an ALLIANCE of Member States with the US (having the largest economy) contributing more than a percentage fair share. That needs addressing but not by using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Again, your anti-Labour agenda is a separate issue.
I posted a report up thread of how European Governments have been preparing for a second Trump term since at least 2023 and have set aside budgets accordingly however Trump announced out of the blue in the past few weeks that he thinks the contributions should rise to a ridiculous 5% of GPD - that is unworkable for most European economies and he knows it.
Corrected for you - Leaders are elected to serve the whole Country not just their supporters. Again, the UK anti-Labour agenda is irrelevant here - the disaffection with Vance and Trump on a WHOLE range of global issues particularly on tariffs, Ukraine and Gaza, the International Criminal Court, Climate Change, NATO, Russia etc has CROSS-PARTY support in the UK Government.
Donald Trump : Favorability Polls
The latest political polls and polling averages from FiveThirtyEight.
Ok, you can have your puns
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Tango man is literally throwing NATO under the bus which means Labour will have to find the means to increase military spending to expand the army after the pillaging it has experienced over many years
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Vance lectures Europe on free speech whilst Trump bans reporters from the White House.
Donald Trump bans reporters who refuse to say 'Gulf of America' from White House
Donald Trump has banned two journalists from the White House after they refused to use the name 'Gulf of America' rather than its internationally recognised title, the Gulf of Mexico
www.mirror.co.uk
portslade seagull
Well-known member
In Trumpland it's becoming ' my way or the highway '. Another 4yrs of this nonsenseVance lectures Europe on free speech whilst Trump bans reporters from the White House.
Donald Trump bans reporters who refuse to say 'Gulf of America' from White House
Donald Trump has banned two journalists from the White House after they refused to use the name 'Gulf of America' rather than its internationally recognised title, the Gulf of Mexico
I have a growing sympathy for Starmer this week as the US set the conditions for another world war.
He is saying the right things and he knows that means a massive increase in defence spending in the UK that will blow a hole in his already faltering economic plans. He also needs to try and walk the tightrope between the US and EU when it comes to trade.
And yet many seem more interested in whether Reeves had made an error in her cv in a previous job.
I hope the electorate and the media get behind the government and recognise that the freedoms we have are real and cannot be taken for granted. Starmer appears to get this and we, as one nation and across the political spectrum, need to support him in this.
He is saying the right things and he knows that means a massive increase in defence spending in the UK that will blow a hole in his already faltering economic plans. He also needs to try and walk the tightrope between the US and EU when it comes to trade.
And yet many seem more interested in whether Reeves had made an error in her cv in a previous job.
I hope the electorate and the media get behind the government and recognise that the freedoms we have are real and cannot be taken for granted. Starmer appears to get this and we, as one nation and across the political spectrum, need to support him in this.
Vance lectures Europe on free speech whilst Trump bans reporters from the White House.
Donald Trump bans reporters who refuse to say 'Gulf of America' from White House
Donald Trump has banned two journalists from the White House after they refused to use the name 'Gulf of America' rather than its internationally recognised title, the Gulf of Mexico
Vance wouldn't know freedom of speech if it hit he or Trump on the arse, blocking reporters from the White House when they refuse to call the Gulf of Mexico anything but. Freedom of Speech? My arse... Trumps poor grasp of the facts of history in that America took California and most of what was Mexico in the first place is just plain ignorant. Vance called Trump "Americas Hitler"...or words to that effect, and now he stands beside him...so you can see how much credibility Vance has...
Vance spoke of the case where silent prayer inside the exclusion zone of an abortion clinic in Southampton being prosecuted was wrong. Again an entitled white man dictating to the world the freedoms women have worked so hard to achieve should not be protected. Lets go back to letting white males prevent women from reasonable and informed health care...
USA v Canada ice hockey fight: Three fights in first nine seconds before US go on to win
A 4 Nations game between the USA and Canada descends into chaos with three fights breaking out between players in the first nine seconds.
www.bbc.com
You are making a splendid go of man-splaining to one of the first people I put on ignore many years ago (for insisting on promoting his half-baked and partial perspectives long after having been shown to be in error).But under Trump, they no longer do which has an impact. After decades of foreign intervention and international cooperation with its allies, sudden US withdrawal of the institutional frameworks within which Western leaders have operated on the global stage since the ‘new order’ after the Second WW is a reckless deconstruction of many of the very things that can manage global events : climate change cooperation, international world health and foreign aid, international trade agreements, international law, and collective defence of Western values. That was my point.
Trump isn’t withdrawing from these institutions because of inequitable financial contributions, he is withdrawing because he is a narcissistic autocrat and pursuing an extreme isolationist agenda to please his right wing MAGA supporters.
He thinks he can rule the World on the “Art of the Deal” that only he can negotiate.
That is a very dangerous world view held by a megalomaniac who couldn’t even manage his own business empire without losing billions of dollars, having numerous hotel bankruptcies and failed casinos and destroying the lives of those that stood in his way.
I didn’t vote for him, neither did half the electorate or anyone in the rest of the Western world so we don’t have to agree with the ‘change’.
Undermining NATO’s support for Ukraine is not just about funding for Trump, he literally has said European security is Europe’s problem, not the US’s. Part of his isolationist agenda across a wide range of policy areas and Project 25. When Russia‘s beef is with the expansion of NATO (and the root of their aggression toward Ukraine, then when the largest member of NATO is constantly signalling he will not come to the aid of NATO countries if Russia attacks them IS undermining the very principle upon which NATO was founded - COLLECTIVE DEFENCE enshrined in Article 5.
No one is arguing that member States need to make the contributions more equitable but Trump’s agenda goes further than that.
No it is not, it is an ALLIANCE of Member States with the US (having the largest economy) contributing more than a percentage fair share. That needs addressing but not by using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Again, your anti-Labour agenda is a separate issue.
I posted a report up thread of how European Governments have been preparing for a second Trump term since at least 2023 and have set aside budgets accordingly however Trump announced out of the blue in the past few weeks that he thinks the contributions should rise to a ridiculous 5% of GPD - that is unworkable for most European economies and he knows it.
Corrected for you - Leaders are elected to serve the whole Country not just their supporters. Again, the UK anti-Labour agenda is irrelevant here - the disaffection with Vance and Trump on a WHOLE range of global issues particularly on tariffs, Ukraine and Gaza, the International Criminal Court, Climate Change, NATO, Russia etc has CROSS-PARTY support in the UK Government.
Donald Trump : Favorability Polls
The latest political polls and polling averages from FiveThirtyEight.projects.fivethirtyeight.com
I salute your indefatigability.
The Clamp
Well-known member
So you don’t want foreigners coming here to better themselves but you don’t have an issue with a foreigner coming here and telling us what our Government’s policies should be.
Perhaps it’s just the brown ones you don’t like.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
You've got a valid point about the out of control immigration, particularly undocumented ones. 20 years ago Tony Blair made a speech in which he categorically stated that undocumented migrants would not be allowed into the UK. His good lady, Cherie, was prominent amongst those who destroyed that policy.
Vance is still a dangerous, fascist dumbnut though, with a weird sofa predilection.
Edit: speech is posted below in thread.
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Seagull58
In the Algarve
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,994
Let’s be clear, pretty much anyone from a foreign shithole country, of which there are many, will better themselves in this country simply by being insitu. It is because of that outcome our leaders should ALWAYS put the interests of its citizens first, and control, who and how many can come here.
That statement may be heresy to you and your fellow travellers, however in the real world electorates are not happy with their liberal overlords.
It is precisely because of that disconnection between electorates and politicians that the likes of Trump are being voted into Government in the first place. Far from being criticised, Vance should be congratulated for pointing out the obvious to the political EU elite. If they can’t digest his candour it’s little wonder “murderous foreigners” are a political problem in Western Europe.
How many more events do you think Europe and the U.K. should take before someone does anything about it?
ROSM
Well-known member
This is the kind of comment people use to justify their despicable actions.
You hit your wife? She was asking for it
You hit your kids? They were winding me up
You got into a fight at the football? They were taking liberties
You abused a foreigner? Well it's their own fault for not learning English
You laughed at the homeless guy begging? Well he had the same chances as I did and didn't take them
I voted for a white supremacist? Well it's because you other politicians were disconnected from me
Let's be honest, people like a folk devil and in a complicated world they like simple answers to apparently easy questions. Dont want to be bothered with complicated nuance. And given 280 characters is what passes for long form journalism at the moment it's easy to see how it works. Frost/Dixon, Thatcher / Walden, wouldn't happen these days.
And the current breed of grifters have honed this into an artform. Question is are you one of the grifters or the one being grifted?