southstandandy
WEST STAND ANDY
- Jul 9, 2003
- 6,276
We made a huge mistake but we do need to move on. Lessons learnt and all that.
[Politics] Brexit - 9 years on, time for a poll ?
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Sadly, it is not a mistake that we can move on from; it is live and continues to affect people adversely. We will have no choice but to address it eventually.....
- Jul 10, 2003
- 28,507
- Thread starter
- #183
Sorry, but I really can't see the point of 'moving on' whilst willingly and continuingly cutting £100B (4% of GDP) every year from the economy. What this means this week is public services get cut, infrastructure around us collapses, taxes go up to compensate for it and GDP going up 0.1% in a quarter makes headline news. Maybe you're happy to pay far more tax for worse services and infrastructure every year in order to 'move on'.
It seems to me, that would be the opposite of sensible
Nobody benefits from "moving on". In fact, what does that even mean, beyond failing to address an awful mistake?
So there we have it.Sorry, but I really can't see the point of 'moving on' whilst willingly and continuingly cutting £100B (4% of GDP) every year from the economy whilst public services get cut, infrastructure around us collapses, taxes go up to compensate for it and GDP going up 0.1% in a quarter makes headline news. Maybe you're happy to pay far more tax for worse services and infrastructure every year in order to 'move on'.
It seems to me, that would be the opposite of sensible
Some folk assert we should never think about Brexit (and rejoining) ever again
while others assert we must rejoin quickly or else, and that Labour should publicly declare this is the intent
Which is why I expect them do do what is necessary (whatever that is - a trade and customs deal at very least) by stealth
Which will then upset people who think they are being sneaky/dishonest
and upset people who think we should do no deals (hard Brexiteers)
and upset rejoiners.
Labour are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and damned if they speak and damned if the stay silent
and the Tories will sure as eggs is eggs weaponize it. All of it. Whatever it is.
Presently the Tories are struggling to weaponize anything though...... now there's a thought.
<sigh>
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
We’re moving backwards. That is a fact.
We need to put the brake on, shift into reverse, and put right the mistake.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 28,507
- Thread starter
- #187
One thing that has piqued my interest.
I see that over 30 people have voted for a harder Brexit and we now have this scheduled opportunity to renegotiate coming up that was part of the original deal. I am genuinely interested, now that we have seen the effect of the original deal, in any specific aspect you would like to see renegotiated and what 'harder' policy you would want to see in it's place ?
I see that over 30 people have voted for a harder Brexit and we now have this scheduled opportunity to renegotiate coming up that was part of the original deal. I am genuinely interested, now that we have seen the effect of the original deal, in any specific aspect you would like to see renegotiated and what 'harder' policy you would want to see in it's place ?
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100% this
It was a question posed without plan of action or analysis of impact, where the people were openly lied to by at least one side of the campaign.
How were people supposed to make an informed opinion when even the people asking the question didn't understand the impact!
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 1,024
Really? How condescending- and yet you haven’t explained have you? You’ve simply pointed out that the implementation of the result wasn’t thought out.
I find it impossible to believe that anyone thought before the referendum that if the result was leave…. We would remain?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
You are trolling now.
Funny that, I thought your post was rather condescending so I reciprocated. Perhaps we can now discuss the matter thoughtfully, without that incumbrance.
We didn't remain..... but only a very small minority seem at all pleased with the aftermath. What point are you making?
Over to you.....
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southstandandy
WEST STAND ANDY
- Jul 9, 2003
- 6,276
Apologies - my post was intended to be 'sarcastic'.
Of course it's been a shit show. GDP down 4%, takes far longer to get goods to and from our nearest neighbour and our biggest trading partner (Europe) and has hit many small businesses and agriculture to boot. I never thought I hear the day that the fishermen who were totally in favour in leaving the EU, now practically to a man/woman say they would rather have stayed!
I had to order a small car part last year (british but the part made in the EU) with a normal delivery with 5 working days. SEVEN weeks later it arrived due to being held up at Dover waiting for paperwork to be rubber stamped. Progress - er NO.
I voted Customs Union on the basis of the fact that we will never rejoin the EU under the terms we had when we left.
Right now, with the majority they have, I fail to understand why Labour wouldn’t rejoin the CU. Be mad not to. We ain’t getting any deals with Trumpton.
Right now, with the majority they have, I fail to understand why Labour wouldn’t rejoin the CU. Be mad not to. We ain’t getting any deals with Trumpton.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 1,024
My point was that all referendums are ‘advisory only’ so it’s not necessary to point out it was advisory and that if you go to the people and ask their opinion in a referendum you should implement the result.
My point was on referendums generally your reply was about the complications of Brexit specifically
To get back to my original point, Cameron said in his manifesto he would hold a referendum If elected and did so
nicko31
Well-known member
The Trump factor changes a lot of things, the US are gone for the foreseeable. We can't be left adrift
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 1,024
The full quote:
I lost, I had a beer and took a shower, you know what I do when I win? I have two beers
It’s not my quote- I nicked it from Amelia Gardner! ! But it sums up my position on many different aspects of life and is very apt for political decisions. One alternative position would be that 9 years later I am still jumping up and down gnashing my teeth purple in the face and turning every political discussion into “what about Brexit” and starting polls on the subject.
None of us want that
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,456
In this situation you go back to your core values. For Starmer:
1. He is a Remainer.
2. It is about "Country First, Party Second"
3. He wants to replace Tory lies with a more honest, open and transparent government.
To me his current position goes against everything he stands for. He knows we were better off in the EU, he knows we can't get growth without "closer" ties to the EU and he wants honesty. Starmer is lying to himself and the country.
To quote Pink Floyd, "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way" - and that is what Starmer is doing. At least the Lib Dems have the balls to push for a Customs Union, as they get the economy is f*cked without it.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 28,507
- Thread starter
- #198
Well luckily, having only been on NSC for a couple of years, you haven't had to suffer that, have you
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 1,024
Added to that it would seem is his inability to read the political landscape… as is constantly pointed out on here the vast majority of the country are very much in favour of rejoining so put it in your manifesto that you will seek to rejoin without a referendum ,campaign on it and get elected