[Politics] Brexit - 9 years on, time for a poll ?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In this situation you go back to your core values. For Starmer:

1. He is a Remainer.
2. It is about "Country First, Party Second"
3. He wants to replace Tory lies with a more honest, open and transparent government.

To me his current position goes against everything he stands for. He knows we were better off in the EU, he knows we can't get growth without "closer" ties to the EU and he wants honesty. Starmer is lying to himself and the country.

To quote Pink Floyd, "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way" - and that is what Starmer is doing. At least the Lib Dems have the balls to push for a Customs Union, as they get the economy is f*cked without it.

Right.

So can I Go Large on a massive liberal landslide at the next general election, then?

Or is politics a tiny bit more complicated than that?

 

[Lever]

My point was that all referendums are ‘advisory only’ so it’s not necessary to point out it was advisory and that if you go to the people and ask their opinion in a referendum you should implement the result.

My point was on referendums generally your reply was about the complications of Brexit specifically

To get back to my original point, Cameron said in his manifesto he would hold a referendum If elected and did so

'Referendums are advisory but you should implement the result'. Is that a paraphrase of what you actually wrote? If so, I don't follow the logic...

Regards your 'original point', yes - but please see the point I made on hashtag147

 

[Chicken Run]

Well luckily, having only been on NSC for a couple of years, you haven't had to suffer that, have you

Well i’ve been on this forum longer than you and ill never tire of your Brexit threads and polls

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well i’ve been on this forum longer than you and ill never tire of your Brexit threads and polls

Although the join dates would indicate otherwise, I believe that when Bozza decided that year zero was July 2003, there isn't any record of when any of us prior to that joined NSC, so you and I are prehistoric

 

[JamieR]

Should have emigrate as an option. I'd go tomorrow if I could.

I applied for my 2 year Canada work visa the morning after the results came in. I left within 4 months, and this weekend I have my Canadian Citizenship test.

Whereabouts in Canada? Know a few who buggered off to Alberta and haven't looked back. Cost of living can be an issue, especially vancouver.

 

[Lever]

Well i’ve been on this forum longer than you and ill never tire of your Brexit threads and polls

That's good.The consequences of Brexit will never be 'done'.....

 

[Pavilionaire]

Right.

So can I Go Large on a massive liberal landslide at the next general election, then?

Or is politics a tiny bit more complicated than that?

Politics is as complicated as you want to make it. Look no further than Trump, who reduces everything to a binary question, decides what he thinks best, then acts.

I'm not saying the Lib Dems are going to win the next election, nothing of the sort. However, they're the third largest party with 72 seats, they're the first major UK party to start rowing back on Brexit and, unlike 2019, when anything Remain was politically toxic we are 6 years on and have lived with the consequences of Brexit for 5 years.

If Starmer can't kickstart growth then there are going to be three parties endorsing Brexit and only one proposing a Customs Union. In that scenario support for the Lib Dems can only grow, and that means Labour getting squeezed on the EU issue by Ed Davey while getting battered on immigration and everything else by Reform.

 

[Whoislloydy]

Should have emigrate as an option. I'd go tomorrow if I could.

Whereabouts in Canada? Know a few who buggered off to Alberta and haven't looked back. Cost of living can be an issue, especially vancouver.

I live in Vancouver, Kitsilano specifically. Cost of living is high, but wages are higher here. Real estate is crazy though.

I know a lot of people who moved from BC to Alberta because of the lower cost of living. Calgary especially is quite affordable and wages are still the same for the most part.

 

[Chicken Run]

Although the join dates would indicate otherwise, I believe that when Bozza decided that year zero was July 2003, there isn't any record of when any of us prior to that joined NSC, so you and I are prehistoric

First logged on with a ‘Tiny’ brand Computer and an AOL dial up in 1998

 

[Nottseagull]

One thing I kinda overlooked in the chaos of the build up to the vote because not once thinking that Brexit would win, was that younger Brits would become de facto prisoners of these bloody expensive isles.

You kinda imply that is more difficult to get out of this country than into it.
Well, the net immigration figures certainly back this up....

 

[Nottseagull]

After Brexit, my European identity was taken from me without my consent.

The Labour government was imposed on me without my consent, but that's democracy. At least you got the chance to vote, unless you'd prefer to live in a country where such things are decided for you.

 

[JamieR]

I live in Vancouver, Kitsilano specifically. Cost of living is high, but wages are higher here. Real estate is crazy though.

I know a lot of people who moved from BC to Alberta because of the lower cost of living. Calgary especially is quite affordable and wages are still the same for the most part.

My mate and his family moved over to Alberta. She's an ITU Nurse and earning way more than uk and can afford a much bigger house than the one they had in Crowborough. They also ski a lot every weekend. For them, it was a no brainer and good luck to them.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

The Labour government was imposed on me without my consent, but that's democracy. At least you got the chance to vote, unless you'd prefer to live in a country where such things are decided for you.

Good effort, but not quite sure the analogy works. With Brexshit, my citizenship, and all the rights that go with it, were taken away. Permanently. Can you think of a similar consequence of living under a Labour government?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I live in Vancouver, Kitsilano specifically. Cost of living is high, but wages are higher here. Real estate is crazy though.

I know a lot of people who moved from BC to Alberta because of the lower cost of living. Calgary especially is quite affordable and wages are still the same for the most part.

I lived in Kits in the 80s.

You are living in absolute lotus land and I hope your life in general is equally blessed

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Politics is as complicated as you want to make it. Look no further than Trump, who reduces everything to a binary question, decides what he thinks best, then acts.

I'm not saying the Lib Dems are going to win the next election, nothing of the sort. However, they're the third largest party with 72 seats, they're the first major UK party to start rowing back on Brexit and, unlike 2019, when anything Remain was politically toxic we are 6 years on and have lived with the consequences of Brexit for 5 years.

If Starmer can't kickstart growth then there are going to be three parties endorsing Brexit and only one proposing a Customs Union. In that scenario support for the Lib Dems can only grow, and that means Labour getting squeezed on the EU issue by Ed Davey while getting battered on immigration and everything else by Reform.

If the economy is f***ed in 4 years I can see Starmer considering options...

 

[Nottseagull]

Does everybody assume that if somehow we got another referendum and voted to return, the EU would welcome us? I think they may consider the risk of another resignation to be too great.

 

[Whoislloydy]

I lived in Kits in the 80s.

You are living in absolute lotus land and I hope your life in general is equally blessed

I'm very blessed to have the opportunity to live where i do, and I am reminded of it every morning and evening when I walk the dog down Kits beach looking across at the mountains.

 

[Weststander]

Does everybody assume that if somehow we got another referendum and voted to return, the EU would welcome us? I think they may consider the risk of another resignation to be too great.

The French could well veto it, or make a whole load of new costs/conditions.

This was recently mentioned by experts with regard to the mooted youth mobility scheme. Labour and some continental governments are very keen, but the French want to tie in unrelated stuff. In addition, Sweden, Greece, Portugal, Luxembourg and France all have high youth unemployment rates.

 

[WATFORD zero]

One thing that has piqued my interest.

I see that over 30 people have voted for a harder Brexit and we now have this scheduled opportunity to renegotiate coming up that was part of the original deal. I am genuinely interested, now that we have seen the effect of the original deal, in any specific aspect you would like to see renegotiated and what 'harder' policy you would want to see in it's place ?

I'm guessing that having had a looong weekend to think about it, there will be a few really well thought out cases of what aspects we should do harder

Because a balanced debate is what it's always about, isn't it

 

[BadFish]

Does everybody assume that if somehow we got another referendum and voted to return, the EU would welcome us? I think they may consider the risk of another resignation to be too great.

I think they would, but the terms would be far less agreeable than previous.