[Politics] Brexit - 9 years on, time for a poll ?

[WATFORD zero]

I think they would, but the terms would be far less agreeable than previous.

Of course they would, probably keep sterling and maybe outside of Schengen again, but idiocy on that scale will always have a price and the benefits of the last 40 years of negotiation by UK Governments of every colour has long gone. That best deal of any nation in the EU won't happen again

We were warned, again and again and again but here we are

 

[abc]

No compromise with the electorate!
(The slogan of Militant in the 80s, in case you forget or were to young to notice)

Politics is the art of the possible.
If you don't win a general election you have only a moon to howl at, and clouds to shake a tiny fist at.

I am content.
For the present.
Things may change, but.....

Which is another way of saying ‘the only thing that matters is gaining power and who gives a flying F about what is right for the country’. And you are correct, that is politics.

Out of sheer stupidity, I thought this government were at least AS interested in the country as being in power. They have a massive majority and could take decisions, like rejoining ties with the word’s largest trading bloc, for the good of the country and not worry about the next election. But no, they are no different to all those that went before them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Which is another way of saying ‘the only thing that matters is gaining power and who gives a flying F about what is right for the country’. And you are correct, that is politics.

Out of sheer stupidity, I thought this government were at least AS interested in the country as being in power. They have a massive majority and could take decisions, like rejoining ties with the word’s largest trading bloc, for the good of the country and not worry about the next election. But no, they are no different to all those that went before them.

Well.... they could not rejoin us in the lifetime of this parliament....

And as it stands if they tried now they would fail (it takes too long...we can't just ask to rejoin, just like that)...

And when the next election comes along and we are negotiating about how to rejoin, and whether we need another referendum...

The combined forces of Tory and Reform would boot labour out.

So I just can't fault Starmer for caution.....

And I am strongly in favour of rejoining....

THAT is politics....

As a matter of interest, given I respect your thoughtful perspectives, can you map a narrative that would get us back into the EU?

 

[abc]

Well.... they could not rejoin us in the lifetime of this parliament....

And as it stands if they tried now they would fail (it takes too long...we can't just ask to rejoin, just like that)...

And when the next election comes along and we are negotiating about how to rejoin, and whether we need another referendum...

The combined forces of Tory and Reform would boot labour out.

So I just can't fault Starmer for caution.....

And I am strongly in favour of rejoining....

THAT is politics....

As a matter of interest, given I respect your thoughtful perspectives, can you map a narrative that would get us back into the EU?

I don’t disagree with what you have said here. Joining the EU is a long term goal and won’t/can’t be achieved in this parliament.

When I said ‘ rejoining ties with the word’s largest trading bloc’ (re reading this, not as clear as I thought!) I meant doing anything that is possible now to improve trade between us and the EU and start (what in any circumstance will take many years) open, rhetoric free, discussions about the future.

Immediately post Brexit, I was part of a trade delegation and we met with senior trade ministers from around the world. Those outside of the EU were (politely) stunned by our stupidity in giving up free access to the biggest trade bloc in the world, and those in the EU were genuinely sad for us and hoped we would come back one day.

Anything is better than nothing and we are still in a better position than any of those non eu nations to develop new trade relations with the EU. However, it will take a gov that is prepared to put country before politics. A gov with 4 years to run with an unassailable majority would be ideal….

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don’t disagree with what you have said here. Joining the EU is a long term goal and won’t/can’t be achieved in this parliament.

When I said ‘ rejoining ties with the word’s largest trading bloc’ (re reading this, not as clear as I thought!) I meant doing anything that is possible now to improve trade between us and the EU and start (what in any circumstance will take many years) open, rhetoric free, discussions about the future.

Immediately post Brexit, I was part of a trade delegation and we met with senior trade ministers from around the world. Those outside of the EU were (politely) stunned by our stupidity in giving up free access to the biggest trade bloc in the world, and those in the EU were genuinely sad for us and hoped we would come back one day.

Anything is better than nothing and we are still in a better position than any of those non eu nations to develop new trade relations with the EU. However, it will take a gov that is prepared to put country before politics. A gov with 4 years to run with an unassailable majority would be ideal….

Thanks. Clear.
I agree.
Here's hoping.

 

[nicko31]

Of course they would, probably keep sterling and maybe outside of Schengen again, but idiocy on that scale will always have a price and the benefits of the last 40 years of negotiation by UK Governments of every colour has long gone. That best deal of any nation in the EU won't happen again

We were warned, again and again and again but here we are

Ireland aren't in Schengen that wouldn't be on the table, other EU nations not in the Euro and not planning to join.

 

[Skuller]

Agree with all you've said there, except for one thing.

My company (we only export) benefitted hugely from the fall in the value of GBP abainst both € and USD post Brexit.

More sales, more profits.

Yes, 9 years on the additional paperwork for European exports is a pain (and I'd clearly rather be in the CU than out) but to say Brexit has had no benefits would IMO be incorrect.

Just for fun here’s a graph of the pound against the euro over the past twenty or so years. I’ve marked the day before the referendum when the pound was at 1.23 (today it’s at 1.21). It was three quarters down a steep decline, and really doesn’t look like a significant point, but it’s impossible to say what would have happened without Brexit.

 

[ALBION28]

I was lucky by marrying an American, I had an escape route. Then Trump arrived!

 

[WATFORD zero]

One thing that has piqued my interest.

I see that over 30 people have voted for a harder Brexit and we now have this scheduled opportunity to renegotiate coming up that was part of the original deal. I am genuinely interested, now that we have seen the effect of the original deal, in any specific aspect you would like to see renegotiated and what 'harder' policy you would want to see in it's place ?

Maybe another week will give someone the opportunity to come up with a single aspect of the current deal that should be made 'harder'. Or maybe not

 

[Is it PotG?]

Maybe another week will give someone the opportunity to come up with a single aspect of the current deal that should be made 'harder'. Or maybe not

 

[Weststander]

Just for fun here’s a graph of the pound against the euro over the past twenty or so years. I’ve marked the day before the referendum when the pound was at 1.23 (today it’s at 1.21). It was three quarters down a steep decline, and really doesn’t look like a significant point, but it’s impossible to say what would have happened without Brexit.
View attachment 196942

At 1.45 it was salad days for folk like us who holidayed on the continent, great value skiing.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm sure @Right Brain Ronnie thinks similar

 

[Pliny the Gull]

Which is another way of saying ‘the only thing that matters is gaining power and who gives a flying F about what is right for the country’. And you are correct, that is politics.

Out of sheer stupidity, I thought this government were at least AS interested in the country as being in power. They have a massive majority and could take decisions, like rejoining ties with the word’s largest trading bloc, for the good of the country and not worry about the next election. But no, they are no different to all those that went before them.

Very good point.
Massive majority swings. 5 years of this. Then 5 years of that.
On the other hand Italy as an example, 70 government's since 1945. Constant coalitions, checks and balances? Compromise? But indecisiveness?
Who knows?
I think the latter may be favourable. IMO

 

[Bring back Bryan wade!!]

Quick question my great grandfather was Austrian, does that qualify me for an Austrian passport or would it need to be grandfather.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I was lucky by marrying an American, I had an escape route. Then Trump arrived!

I don't really have an escape route but I thought it would be a great idea to learn the Canadian National Anthem. It's much easier than the American NA.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I think the latter may be favourable. IMO

Is that truly the ladder or the farmer?

 

[Lever]

The Labour government was imposed on me without my consent, but that's democracy. At least you got the chance to vote, unless you'd prefer to live in a country where such things are decided for you.

...and you can vote again on who governs in this country in a few years. Brexit has been imposed on us for over 5 years now with no prospect of another vote.... the two are not comparable

 

[Is it PotG?]

...and you can vote again on who governs in this country in a few years. Brexit has been imposed on us for over 5 years now with no prospect of another vote.... the two are not comparable

The damage caused in such a short time is quite something.

 

[schmunk]

Quick question my great grandfather was Austrian, does that qualify me for an Austrian passport or would it need to be grandfather.

Anyone here from the Austrian embassy?

Anyone...?

 

[Chicken Run]

Anyone here from the Austrian embassy?

Anyone...?

Gooday mate