[Politics] Brexit - 9 years on, time for a poll ?

[portlock seagull]

17 million out of 50 million eligible voters isn’t “most”

But you know what’s meant-by and you’re at best being pedantic and at worse irrelevant.

 

[portslade seagull]

17 million out of 50 million eligible voters isn’t “most”

But it's not leaves fault that 33m couldn't be arsed to vote so not really an argument. The same with GE the great majority just don't vote so cannot complain about whatever outcome they end up with

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Our high tech UK manufacturing business has suffered hugely from red tape, beaurocracy and additional costs directly as a result of brexit, without a single benefit. This must be being played out in a similar fashion in thousands of companies across the country, yet is for some bizarre reason not reported on.

Brexit has been an appalling mistake and should be overturned in its entirety as soon as possible.

Really sad for the UK that Labour are not brave enough to stand up to the minority and push this through.

Agree with all you've said there, except for one thing.

My company (we only export) benefitted hugely from the fall in the value of GBP abainst both € and USD post Brexit.

More sales, more profits.

Yes, 9 years on the additional paperwork for European exports is a pain (and I'd clearly rather be in the CU than out) but to say Brexit has had no benefits would IMO be incorrect.

 

[Commander]

My wife and three kids all have Irish passports now through her mum. I can’t get one. I’m stuck on this shitty island.

I'm in exactly the same position, albeit with two kids.

 

[Lever]

But it's not leaves fault that 33m couldn't be arsed to vote so not really an argument. The same with GE the great majority just don't vote so cannot complain about whatever outcome they end up with

'Leave's' fault is what has happened since the 'Leave' vote..... and that's more than enough fault. By 'Leave' of course I mean the influencers in 2016 and the 'nothing to see here' diehards who are still telling us it was the right thing to do....

I hope you will agree, but I am not confident......

 

[Rdodge30]

No compromise with the electorate!
(The slogan of Militant in the 80s, in case you forget or were to young to notice)

Politics is the art of the possible.
If you don't win a general election you have only a moon to howl at, and clouds to shake a tiny fist at.

I am content.
For the present.
Things may change, but.....

I suppose it all depends on what the party’s actual position is. There is apparently a very large workforce behind the scenes of government gearing up to renegotiate terms with the EU and if that is and always was his intention, then to declare the opposite in the manifesto is at best dishonest at worst corrupt.

Almost every poll quoted on here shows a large majority of the country are ready to return to the EU so it would make little sense to declare you will keep the country outside of the EU in order to gain power as it would seem that is the last thing the country wants.


Only time will tell what this governments intentions are.


Cameron gets a lot of grief over Brexit but it was in the Conservative manifesto that he would hold a referendum, the country voted him in and he held a referendum. He told the electorate exactly what the cost would be to the country if we left and he was proven right.

 

[Lever]

I suppose it all depends on what the party’s actual position is. There is apparently a very large workforce behind the scenes of government gearing up to renegotiate terms with the EU and if that is and always was his intention, then to declare the opposite in the manifesto is at best dishonest at worst corrupt.

Almost every poll quoted on here shows a large majority of the country are ready to return to the EU so it would make little sense to declare you will keep the country outside of the EU in order to gain power as it would seem that is the last thing the country wants.


Only time will tell what this governments intentions are.


Cameron gets a lot of grief over Brexit but it was in the Conservative manifesto that he would hold a referendum, the country voted him in and he held a referendum. He told the electorate exactly what the cost would be to the country if we left and he was proven right.

Yes, but he was too lazy and arrogant to put in checks and balances e.g. 60% vote required for change and/or a review after we leave; likewise he was too stupid and careless to assess what a close result in an era defining referendum would do to the cohesion of society.
So in my view he deserves all the grief we can muster.....

 

[Eeyore]

How exactly do we 'renegotiate a harder BREXIT deal' ?

I'd like anyone who thinks that to explain to my inquisitive mind, bearing in mind the government's own think tank have already said that we are losing 4% of GDP due to the current one.

This rather reminds me of the survey among Tory party members in which a number said they would be happy to trade future economic hardship in exchange for leaving the EU. Them, of course, being pensioners who had already made their fortune in the booming good times.

 

[Eeyore]

Yes, but he was too lazy and arrogant to put in checks and balances e.g. 60% vote required for change and/or a review after we leave; likewise he was too stupid and careless to assess what a close result in an era defining referendum would do to the cohesion of society.

It was madness to define an outcome of such a move of magnitude on a 50+1. Simply because of the effects and the whims of opinion. What we see now is evidence of the error. Still, we have to make it work. This may involve a closer relationship with the mainland. It seems that the government are looking to this.

 

[RandyWanger]

I was a remainer. Being someone who used the freedom of movement to work and live in 4 different EU countries, meeting my now wife in one of them and wishing to return one day to raise our family.
Honestly, I don't know how I would vote now. Both the EU and the UK seem to be in a race to the bottom in the name of globalism. Probably a hard brexit, cut all ties and make our own rules would be best.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I was a remainer. Being someone who used the freedom of movement to work and live in 4 different EU countries, meeting my now wife in one of them and wishing to return one day to raise our family.
Honestly, I don't know how I would vote now. Both the EU and the UK seem to be in a race to the bottom in the name of globalism. Probably a hard brexit, cut all ties and make our own rules would be best.

Well, good as they already are, that would definitely improve the UK's chances massively in your "race to the bottom"

 

[Lever]

I was a remainer. Being someone who used the freedom of movement to work and live in 4 different EU countries, meeting my now wife in one of them and wishing to return one day to raise our family.
Honestly, I don't know how I would vote now. Both the EU and the UK seem to be in a race to the bottom in the name of globalism. Probably a hard brexit, cut all ties and make our own rules would be best.

That is the politics of desperation.
Please elaborate on your comment 'a race to the bottom in the name of globalisation'. What do you mean?

 

[Rdodge30]

Yes, but he was too lazy and arrogant to put in checks and balances e.g. 60% vote required for change and/or a review after we leave; likewise he was too stupid and careless to assess what a close result in an era defining referendum would do to the cohesion of society.
So in my view he deserves all the grief we can muster.....

Democracy is as democracy does. Straight up and down vote - vox populi

I don’t remember anyone calling for 60% majority before the vote, if you were then you are entitled to say so now.

Cameron said he’d have a referendum if he got voted in and he did so.


The electorate had 2 chances - first to vote Labour and then to vote remain.

 

[RandyWanger]

That is the politics of desperation.
Please elaborate on your comment 'a race to the bottom in the name of globalisation'. What do you mean?

Net Zero and carbon taxes along with even more surveillance pathing the way to digitalid and cbdcs.

We could discuss the invasion of military aged men across Europe (not women and children genuinely seeking asylum) not being returned along with all the associated costs while apparently we have a 22bn black hole, freezing pensioners, failing nhs and crumbling infrastructure. The increase in crime that has followed, notably violent crimes.

 

[barbus_max bhafc]

No poll, what a load of shite this thread is

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

But you know what’s meant-by and you’re at best being pedantic and at worse irrelevant.

Pedantic and irrelevant? Two good reasons that at this point I’m referring back to post #4

 

[portlock seagull]

Pedantic and irrelevant? Two good reasons that at this point I’m referring back to post #4

See - you can’t help but twist words. You’re being an arse now as well and I’ll leave it at that.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Our high tech UK manufacturing business has suffered hugely from red tape, beaurocracy and additional costs directly as a result of brexit, without a single benefit. This must be being played out in a similar fashion in thousands of companies across the country, yet is for some bizarre reason not reported on.

Brexit has been an appalling mistake and should be overturned in its entirety as soon as possible.

Really sad for the UK that Labour are not brave enough to stand up to the minority and push this through.

Sorry to hear this. Reminds me of 2016 when I found out that one of my friends had voted leave. I was incredulous when he told me his reason was 'because of all the bureaucracy'!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I was a remainer. Being someone who used the freedom of movement to work and live in 4 different EU countries, meeting my now wife in one of them and wishing to return one day to raise our family.
Honestly, I don't know how I would vote now. Both the EU and the UK seem to be in a race to the bottom in the name of globalism. Probably a hard brexit, cut all ties and make our own rules would be best.

How can you go from Remainer in 2016 to "Hard Brexit, cut all ties and make our own rules"?!

Regardless of the ebb and flow of geopolitics, mainland Europe is still the UK's biggest market and can be reached within minutes. We cannot sell them goods if they don't reach EU standards, so we can't "make our own rules" in isolation, and if we became a Singapore-style tax haven they would penalise us with tariffs.

I don't agree that the EU is in a "race to the bottom", as they have a whole list of candidate countries queuing up for full membership AND they now have Canada and Mexico wanting closer ties following Trump's tariffs. Within 10 years the free trade area could easily comprise 50 states.

When Russia eventually implodes then the likes of Belarus, Georgia, Armenia will come into play too, while the EU has signed trade agreements with designated 'Southern Neighbourhood' countries Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Palestine, Israel, Lebanon and Jordan.

It has a Customs Union with Turkey, Ukraine wants to join. None of this gets any traction in the mainstream UK media.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Democracy is as democracy does. Straight up and down vote - vox populi

I don’t remember anyone calling for 60% majority before the vote, if you were then you are entitled to say so now.

Cameron said he’d have a referendum if he got voted in and he did so.


The electorate had 2 chances - first to vote Labour and then to vote remain.

Nobody did because the Referendum Act 2015 stated the referendum was advisory only. There was no mandate to forcibly leave the EU, which is why Cameron ran away when he realised what he had done.
Theresa May then tried to push through her red lines without Parliament, but failed because Gina Miller took her to court, stating that Parliament is sovereign, not the Prime Minister.