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[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

  • President Joe Biden - Democrat

    Votes: 3 0.7%

  • Donald Trump - Republican

    Votes: 175 42.3%

  • Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

    Votes: 216 52.2%

  • Other Democratic candidate tbc

    Votes: 20 4.8%
  • Total voters
    414
  • Poll closed .


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
27,297
Curious Orange said:
Just use Hitchen's razor:
Click to expand...
Very true. Although I would suggest that it is not being dismissed as much as needing context and evidence. The solution, of course, would be to, other than this, take all at face value. Not a good idea. Especially where someone has been frequently proven to lie and exaggerate.
 




Seagull58

Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,934
Vilamoura, Portugal
Eeyore said:
It's not actually unreasonable what he is saying. US committed to NATO, but expects Europe to stop being so reliant and try and look after itself. I'm just looking at it from their perspective.

As regards the Ukraine war, it has been apparent from the start that Russsia cannot be defeated, just pushed back, made to suffer and ultimately appeased in some way. It was my view three years ago and I hold to it now. It's not right, they had no right to invade sovereign territory, but it's easy for us to call for a just and moral outcome from the safety of our armchairs thousands of miles away whilst the slaughter goes on each day. Ultimately, the way out will involve things that perhaps folk don't want. But it's the only way out, unless non involved folk continue to want billions of pounds spent on death and destruction, countless lives lost, and a never ending conflict. Putin would rather destroy his own country than lose this war.

It's either a choice with a lot of wrong attached to it that may save lives, or a terrible choice that will just continue the slaughter.

My feeling was that Trump, as despicable as he is, may get something moving on Ukraine. It could be the case. It's also my feeling that the UK needs to start making friends again in Europe. I think we are seeing this coming to fruition.
Click to expand...
Putin has already reneged on the 1994 agreement in which Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. Why would he negotiate in good faith this time?
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,339
Faversham
Seagull58 said:
Putin has already reneged on the 1994 agreement in which Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. Why would he negotiate in good faith this time?
Click to expand...
Joining the @abc school of not following this evening, I am not following how Russia can renege over a deal made by Ukraine?

And the nuclear weapons Ukraine apparently gave up would have been Russian.

What gives?
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,617
Cumbria
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Joining the @abc school of not following this evening, I am not following how Russia can renege over a deal made by Ukraine?

And the nuclear weapons Ukraine apparently gave up would have been Russian.

What gives?
Click to expand...
1739397677045.png

Russia have reneged on their side of the agreement.
 


Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,654
Mid Sussex
Eeyore said:
It's not actually unreasonable what he is saying. US committed to NATO, but expects Europe to stop being so reliant and try and look after itself. I'm just looking at it from their perspective.

As regards the Ukraine war, it has been apparent from the start that Russsia cannot be defeated, just pushed back, made to suffer and ultimately appeased in some way. It was my view three years ago and I hold to it now. It's not right, they had no right to invade sovereign territory, but it's easy for us to call for a just and moral outcome from the safety of our armchairs thousands of miles away whilst the slaughter goes on each day. Ultimately, the way out will involve things that perhaps folk don't want. But it's the only way out, unless non involved folk continue to want billions of pounds spent on death and destruction, countless lives lost, and a never ending conflict. Putin would rather destroy his own country than lose this war.

It's either a choice with a lot of wrong attached to it that may save lives, or a terrible choice that will just continue the slaughter.

My feeling was that Trump, as despicable as he is, may get something moving on Ukraine. It could be the case. It's also my feeling that the UK needs to start making friends again in Europe. I think we are seeing this coming to fruition.
Click to expand...
Trump talks … that is all he does. He’ll say anything to get a reaction or appear as the ’big guy on the planet’. This is the man who said he’d build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, the man who said he’d fix Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office. He talks bollocks!
whatever happens will be around making himself rich ….
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,339
Faversham
Bodian said:
View attachment 196660
Russia have reneged on their side of the agreement.
Click to expand...
Ah. Just a case of badly expressed narrative by the person to whom I replied.

Russia reneged. Fine. :thumbsup:

And....fancy that!
I had been under the impression, and this was just a guess I admit, that when Russia invaded Ukraine, Russia had committed an illegal act of aggression.

Hats off to the previous poster for clarifying a possible source of confusion and misapprehension.

So, to summarize, Putin wrong and bad, Ukraine good and, er, good.

And so Trump says.....support the bad guys for the sake of world peace!

A latter-day Chamberlain.
The ****. :facepalm:
 










Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
58,339
Faversham
Liv golf from Gaza!
(By the sea, so a links course!)

Gaza United in the Champion's League!

Eurovision Song Contest from Gaza!

His name is Trump, he's having a laugh
He'll trade your mother, the price is half
He'll turn a profit, on what's not his
And then retire. And that's show biz.
 


Cotton Socks

Cotton Socks

Skint Supporter
Feb 20, 2017
2,297
Not every ones taste in music, it's the words people should be listening to & watching the video to the end. The vid says 2012 but the track was realeased in 2003, I know this as I bought it on vinyl at that time. Some random British DJ (no offence to Adam Freeland but the chances of most of you on here knowing who he is, is minimal) was making music about it over 20 years ago.
Nothing has changed, it's getting worse, add Musk into the equation & it's like Adam Freeland had a crystal ball!!!

 






B

BiffyBoy100

Active member
Apr 20, 2020
196
dejavuatbtn said:
I never thought Trump would become Putin’s puppet. Jees what a mess the American electorate have made of world affairs.
Click to expand...
You mention that the American electorate has made a mess of world affairs - but what exactly is the right move with Ukraine at this point?

I’ve lived in the U.S. for over a decade, and coming from the UK, I remember hearing similar arguments after Brexit—that UK voters had completely destabilised global politics. I was against Brexit, but it was a democratic choice, just like the U.S. election, even if many of us don’t agree with the outcome. But in both cases, the bigger question remains: what’s the best move from here?

I voted for Kamala Harris, but even if she were in office, would she have a perfect solution for Ukraine? Would any U.S. president?
  • More military aid? Risks dragging the U.S. further into direct conflict.
  • Less support? Basically handing Ukraine over to Russia.
  • Push for negotiations? What deal actually stops Putin without rewarding his invasion?
Some will say Trump is about to reward Putin, but so far, all he’s really said is that returning to Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders is unrealistic and that Ukraine’s NATO membership isn’t happening anytime soon. That might sound like a concession, but let’s be honest—is there any scenario where Russia just accepts defeat and walks away? Even if the U.S. stays firm, Europe and Ukraine have a say in this too.

Meanwhile, some argue we should just accept Putin’s demand to keep Ukraine out of NATO—but if we do that, what stops him from making more demands?

And while Trump has completely misread Gaza, Ukraine is a different situation—one is a decades-long territorial conflict, the other is a nuclear power invading and redrawing borders by force.

Foreign policy is never clean, but blaming the electorate ignores reality.
 








darkwolf666

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,912
Sittingbourne, Kent
BiffyBoy100 said:
Am I reading different news to you. When did Trump sell Ukraine to Russia? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c04n622gzx7o
Click to expand...
Did you not read this but, in the article you linked to…?

While it has long been known the new US administration would be less sympathetic to Ukraine than its predecessor, the words from Trump and his Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth will have only pleased Moscow.

Zelensky has repeatedly argued there "can be no talks on Ukraine without Ukraine" - but the Trump-Putin phone call proved otherwise.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
68,757
Beside the seaside, beside the sea






tedebear

tedebear

Legal Alien
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
17,293
In my computer
Eeyore said:
It's not actually unreasonable what he is saying. US committed to NATO, but expects Europe to stop being so reliant and try and look after itself. I'm just looking at it from their perspective.

As regards the Ukraine war, it has been apparent from the start that Russsia cannot be defeated, just pushed back, made to suffer and ultimately appeased in some way. It was my view three years ago and I hold to it now. It's not right, they had no right to invade sovereign territory, but it's easy for us to call for a just and moral outcome from the safety of our armchairs thousands of miles away whilst the slaughter goes on each day. Ultimately, the way out will involve things that perhaps folk don't want. But it's the only way out, unless non involved folk continue to want billions of pounds spent on death and destruction, countless lives lost, and a never ending conflict. Putin would rather destroy his own country than lose this war.

It's either a choice with a lot of wrong attached to it that may save lives, or a terrible choice that will just continue the slaughter.

My feeling was that Trump, as despicable as he is, may get something moving on Ukraine. It could be the case. It's also my feeling that the UK needs to start making friends again in Europe. I think we are seeing this coming to fruition.
Click to expand...

Its enormously unreasonable and a lazy point of view when I hear this approach. This is the "just because Russia is big and ugly and won't back down they can have this land".....just a bonkers view.

Russia has taken the land and the people in Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, despite not occupying it all. Can you imagine if France came and took Sussex, and maybe a bit of Kent or Essex. Ground us down in a war we couldn't get out of, then you'd be happy to just say, "its ok you can have it" to stop what is going on...What of the people there? You just allow them to become a part of another country? Loose their citizenship, lose their identity, their language, just because its the only way out?

When will people stand up for what is right and wrong here. What Putin is doing is wrong, irrelevant of the country he is doing it to. With apathetic views such as the above and saying "Trump might get something moving" in a way that makes it sound like what he will do is good...is flipping dangerous.
 




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