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[Politics] Brexit - 9 years on, time for a poll ?

What should we do ?

  • Rejoin the EU

  • Rejoin the Customs Union

  • Renegotiate the Brexit deal we have but remaining outside the CU

  • Renegotiate a harder Brexit deal

Results are only viewable after voting.


Mustafa II

Mustafa II

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2022
2,087
Hove
The EU is very much a sinking ship. We did the right thing in leaving it - and it's a shame we couldn't leave sooner.

I do find it disturbing how so many people passionately want to rejoin the EU - but I think it's more of a fantasy, which would not have a happy ending.

The whole of the West is in societal and economic trouble. EU countries are not in a better state than the UK. Over time, the EU is going to crumble, the cracks are already emerging.
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,923
Gods country fortnightly
Bozza said:
But he's the man of country over party, of returning the country to economic prosperity, of making difficult decisions even if they are unpopular.

Starting the journey of getting the UK back into the EU is all of those things. It is the single and most obvious thing that could be done to improve the future prospects of the nation. And like most of us on here, he knows that too.

But he won't entertain it primarily for party political reasons.
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During the election I get Labour being cautious, 1992 still haunts them. But now with a thumping majority they must be bolder and really ignore the noise.

With Trump in the Whitehouse any meaningful FTA with the US has gone, there no net upside of being alone outside the EU customs block. And rest assured there are more tax rises coming, this is the deferred cost of a weaker economy.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,320
I'd actually quite like it if Labour came out and said.

"Look brexit was a shitshow, but there's literally nothing we can do about it, because if we make any serious overtures to the EU, Farage is going to be your next PM and things will get a whole lot worse"
 




Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,320
Mustafa II said:
The whole of the West is in societal and economic trouble.
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So we need to band together don't we?

If countries don't form blocks with their relatively like minded neighbours, they are going to get picked off one by one by Trumps tarrifs, Russian military aggression and Chinese ambition for domination.

The EU is our only natural partner. I'm sure you could point to differences, as there are within the UK, but our interests are almost completely aligned.

Our national interest demands we rejoin. Politics will get in the way for the foreseeable future though
 




GoldstoneVintage

GoldstoneVintage

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2024
343
Europe
Mustafa II said:
The EU is very much a sinking ship. We did the right thing in leaving it - and it's a shame we couldn't leave sooner.

I do find it disturbing how so many people passionately want to rejoin the EU - but I think it's more of a fantasy, which would not have a happy ending.

The whole of the West is in societal and economic trouble. EU countries are not in a better state than the UK. Over time, the EU is going to crumble, the cracks are already emerging.
Click to expand...
Whilst I agree that there are huge challenges to the EU, I don't agree that the answer is to give up. Solidarity created the EU and it's worth remembering that before it's inception we had centuries of war culminating in the atrocities of WW2. Besides, If you look around the world at who wants the EU destroyed, Russia and China notably, I think it tells you all you need to know.
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
18,923
Gods country fortnightly
Mustafa II said:
The EU is very much a sinking ship. We did the right thing in leaving it - and it's a shame we couldn't leave sooner.

I do find it disturbing how so many people passionately want to rejoin the EU - but I think it's more of a fantasy, which would not have a happy ending.

The whole of the West is in societal and economic trouble. EU countries are not in a better state than the UK. Over time, the EU is going to crumble, the cracks are already emerging.
Click to expand...
We live in a world is giant trading blocks, China, USA and EU. The EU is a mature market, some are struggling right now such as Germany, others are booming like Spain. There are other markets, but you try securing BIS approval to sell to India...

Which block do you think is best for the UK? Then consider geography......
 




A

abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,502
Thunder Bolt said:
The LibDems are campaigning for the EU. James MacLeary, my MP, introduced a 10 minute bill for Youth Movement.
The Green Party are pro EU, as well.
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All credit to them for their policy on the EU but unfortunately their lack of credible policy on other issues (currently) makes them unelectable.

The Tories and Reform are committed to Brexit and will not change

So this leaves Labour who believe in Europe but have totally bottled it, or worse, have cynically put party before country (as has already been pointed out).
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
18,188
Fiveways
nicko31 said:
We live in a world is giant trading blocks, China, USA and EU. The EU is a mature market, some are struggling right now such as Germany, others are booming like Spain. There are other markets, but you try securing BIS approval to sell to India...

Which block do you think is best for the UK? Then consider geography......
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Spot on. And also factor in that the largest trading relationship of just about every country is with its nearest.
 


A

abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,502
Nobby Cybergoat said:
I'd actually quite like it if Labour came out and said.

"Look brexit was a shitshow, but there's literally nothing we can do about it, because if we make any serious overtures to the EU, Farage is going to be your next PM and things will get a whole lot worse"
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It would be a refreshingly honest approach! However, how about “we believe that Brexit was a mistake and the best thing for the country is to rejoin. Therefore we will spend the next 4 years carefully and rationally explaining why, so you will NOT want to vote for Reform but will want to vote Labour”?
 




WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
28,508
Chicken Run said:
I don’t know but we can do another one next year just in case, i’d be interested to know why the OP insists on exposing people’s vote though…..
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I haven't 'exposed' anything. If for some reason you don't want people to know what you think, don't vote :thumbsup:

rogersix said:
It's good to know where we all stand tho, is it not?
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I would have thought so, but if some people don't want to be honest about where they stand :shrug:
 


Jackthelad

Jackthelad

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2010
1,203
Everything changed after the invasion of Ukraine and Covid19, the world was a different place. We also had the most despicable Tories in power that we've ever seen who did their best to line their own pockets. I suspect Labour will try and get us closer to the EU I hope some kind of easier access for Brits abroad in likes of Spain and nations where we have a lot of expats, but I'm not holding my breath.
 






L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,558
portlock seagull said:
I’d like to go back to the EU, as there were zero problems before, life was so easy and inexpensive and still is in mainland Europe. It’s only here that these problems exist. Plus, everyone knows Brexit caused the pandemic, the death of the monarch and wars in both Ukraine and the Middle East. Oh, and climate change. Nearly forgot that too. So why the politicians are still fanning about and haven’t returned us to the EU I really don’t know, given all these problems will be reversed: am looking forward to seeing Liz back on the throne the most.
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Well done, that is the most vacuous piece of pointless irony on the thread!
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
68,757
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Jackthelad said:
Everything changed after the invasion of Ukraine and Covid19, the world was a different place. We also had the most despicable Tories in power that we've ever seen who did their best to line their own pockets. I suspect Labour will try and get us closer to the EU I hope some kind of easier access for Brits abroad in likes of Spain and nations where we have a lot of expats, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Sorry but calling the British abroad - expats, really annoys me. They are immigrants.

British exceptionalism.
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
55,278
Surrey
WATFORD zero said:
I haven't 'exposed' anything. If for some reason you don't want people to know what you think, don't vote :thumbsup:



I would have thought so, but if some people don't want to be honest about where they stand :shrug:
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If that's your attitude then why offer a vote in the first place? The bottom line is that some people feel a certain way but don't feel the need to explain it. There are, of course, simpletons like Is it PotG, but his embarrassing contributions are only the tip of the iceberg. This way, you're just irritating people (again).

If you want to make this vote a useful exercise, you should offer it anonymously. Even then, I'm not sure what it offers. I'd have thought asking how many people if they have changed their minds and in what direction would have been far more informative. Let's face it, this government (or any other) are only going to change direction on the issue when there is an overwhelming public change of heart, and that needs to go beyond pro-Brexit gammon dying off.
 




L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,558
Simster said:
If that's your attitude then why offer a vote in the first place? The bottom line is that some people feel a certain way but don't feel the need to explain it. There are, of course, simpletons like Is it PotG, but his embarrassing contributions are only the tip of the iceberg. This way, you're just irritating people (again).

If you want to make it a vote useful, you should offer it anonymously. Even then, I'm not sure what it offers. I'd have thought asking how many people if they have changed their minds and in what direction would have been far more informative. Let's face it, this government (or any other) are only going to change direction on the issue when there is an overwhelming public change of heart, and that needs to go beyond pro-Brexit gammon dying off.
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I think you have earned a thumbs up for that.....

Just to add that the Brexit Referendum was and is a hugely emotional issue and the country has devoted almost a decade trying to come to terms with it, why it happened, what it means in practice, how, if at all there is any advantage to be taken from it; the tories may well have permanently destroyed themselves over it and all the parties have been obliged to ditch talking about it because of its toxicity. I think the only thing that has been conclusively demonstrated is that referendums are seriously bad for the cohesion of society and awful for decision making......
 
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