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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)



Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,001
I've often thought - when it's all over and Ukraine has got lasting peace and the land back it owns, Russia's economy is in tatters,
a world pariah and Putin and his cronies are all in The Hague, we should have a few drinks to celebrate,.
One day, so that Ukrainians can sleep soundly once again, I would love to toast the collapse and disintegration of Russia.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
54,539
Goldstone
This is a long opinion piece, and I can't really summarise the differing views.
It's dated 9th January and reflects on the upcoming Polish EU presidency (for 6 months) and what Poland may or may not push for in terms of support for Ukraine AND Europe's defence architecture in general. Worth a read if you can make time.

Were there any responses you particularly liked?
 










raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,354
Wiltshire
I'm working on it...watch this space 😄
The pre-amble is: Can Poland display credible EU leadership without deploying Polish troops to Ukraine.
Recently, France and UK said they would be willing to (for a peacekeeping force), Poland declined for now.

The opinions focus on what Poland should aim to achieve during its EU presidency. E.g.
- push EU countries to find solutions to finance common defense and production
- move the EU defence industry toward a war footing
- initiate EU efforts to fully confiscate the $300 billion Russian frozen assets, and use for Ukraine to buy US weapons
- gain EU commitment to assume all financial support for Ukraine if US promises to continue military support
- get all members to increase defense spending above 3% (Poland is at 4.5%,and has 3rd largest NATO force).
- consider EU sanctions on China for their support of Russia.

Most useful contributions IMO are from:
1. Monika. 3. Anastasiya. 5. Liana. 8. Jakub.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
54,539
Goldstone
The pre-amble is: Can Poland display credible EU leadership without deploying Polish troops to Ukraine.
Recently, France and UK said they would be willing to (for a peacekeeping force), Poland declined for now.

The opinions focus on what Poland should aim to achieve during its EU presidency. E.g.
- push EU countries to find solutions to finance common defense and production
- move the EU defence industry toward a war footing
- initiate EU efforts to fully confiscate the $300 billion Russian frozen assets, and use for Ukraine to buy US weapons
- gain EU commitment to assume all financial support for Ukraine if US promises to continue military support
- get all members to increase defense spending above 3% (Poland is at 4.5%,and has 3rd largest NATO force).
- consider EU sanctions on China for their support of Russia.

Most useful contributions IMO are from:
1. Monika. 3. Anastasiya. 5. Liana. 8. Jakub.

Thank you.
 








Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,001
I think Zelensky is onto something.

Imagine losing your own war to the country you invaded. The country you stated had no right to exist.

Then three years after your three day war, you try everything to avoid having to negotiate a peace with the leader who successfully resisted your invasion.

This has got potential.

 




Sirnormangall

Well-known member
Sep 21, 2017
3,348
I think Zelensky is onto something.

Imagine losing your own war to the country you invaded. The country you stated had no right to exist.

Then three years after your three day war, you try everything to avoid having to negotiate a peace with the leader who successfully resisted your invasion.

This has got potential.


I think there’s still no news of a Trump / Putin meeting or even a conversation. I want the war to end, but I’d also like Trump to ignore Putin for a while and let him stew while his military and economic position continues to weaken. Putin must be fuming that maybe he’s not as important on the world stage as he once was or would like to be
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
21,687
Deepest, darkest Sussex
I think Zelensky is onto something.

Imagine losing your own war to the country you invaded. The country you stated had no right to exist.

Then three years after your three day war, you try everything to avoid having to negotiate a peace with the leader who successfully resisted your invasion.

This has got potential.


It’s also very clever with regards to Trump. One of the base things Trump very clearly believes in is that there are always winners and losers in every scenario and situation. And the winners are the strong. Painting Putin as a loser in this war (as we can all see that he is) helps with Trump. We know Trump is predisposed to Putin, he sees him as a strong dictator who can assert his will. But undermine that and Trump’s faith will quickly shake IMHO.
 


Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,001
I think there’s still no news of a Trump / Putin meeting or even a conversation. I want the war to end, but I’d also like Trump to ignore Putin for a while and let him stew while his military and economic position continues to weaken. Putin must be fuming that maybe he’s not as important on the world stage as he once was or would like to be
Yes, I agree with all of that. It's interesting that there is still no news of the Trump/Putin meeting. It could be a red herring - just due to Trump's schedule etc, but I prefer the other theory - that Trump is doing it on purpose, making Putin wait, weakening all the while.
 




essbee1

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2014
5,005
Putin knows he's fu**ed. Playing the "billy big bollox" routine just will not work. It will just be more
painful in the end for him.
 


essbee1

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2014
5,005
Putin knows he's fu**ed. Playing the "billy big bollox" routine just will not work. It will just be more
painful in the end for him.
Putin reminds me of my elder brother - a piece of absolute shit. Would never give in to me, even
if that meant he took a huge hit.
 




raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,354
Wiltshire
I think Zelensky is onto something.

Imagine losing your own war to the country you invaded. The country you stated had no right to exist.

Then three years after your three day war, you try everything to avoid having to negotiate a peace with the leader who successfully resisted your invasion.

This has got potential.


Cue alcohol fuelled rants from Medvedev and Solovyev.
I think Trump would still prefer to negotiate only with the usual 'big boys,' of Russia, China...carve up the world between them.
But if Zelenskiy can convince him that US companies get first dibs at Donbas riches (if they help save them), and that the experienced Ukrainian military can form a core within a European defense network, then there's a good chance of consistent support from Trump, IMO.
 




Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
8,001
You can see how Russian arrogance is playing a part in this war. Russia is wasting untold billions on offensive weapons.

But it never occurred to a single Russian, that the country it attacked so brutally, would be fighting back so successfully three years later. So it didn't invest in nearly enough defensive systems, which it's ministry of defence should have been doing. The clue is in the name.

A fundamental strategic mistake.
 


raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
8,354
Wiltshire
It's coffee time, everyone. This message struck a strong chord with me. It's nothing about success on the battlefield; it's about how Russia has totally lost the hearts and minds of most Russian speaking Ukrainians.
This is exactly where my wife is, and her relatives and friends that remain in Ukraine or have fled. I'll let it speak for itself:
 


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