[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

Is it PotG? · Jan 27, 2025

WATFORD zero said:
I agree he is ignorant, but most of us make posts that others of a different view could be considered ignorant, particularly if you lament the loss of Johnson, Truss etc like our friend.

However, not being happy with simple trolling, ignorance and stupidity, spending months setting up accounts to deliberately pick on people who have been open and honest about their neurodiversity on NSC is a little different.

By a little different, I mean completely and absolutely c***ish and I'm not sure anyone would try and defend that

Yes, yes ...but what did you post BEFORE the traditional edit?

beorhthelm · Jan 27, 2025

Herr Tubthumper said:
I’d be up for everyone having a carbon quota. I’d also be up for folk being able to trade the quota e.g. if you choose not to fly you can trade your quota with someone who wants to fly but has reached their limit.

if you can trade the quota, it wouldn't help emissions, just increase price of flights for some.

WATFORD zero · Jan 27, 2025

Is it PotG? said:
Yes, yes ...but what did you post BEFORE the traditional edit?

Well I certainly wouldn't have picked on people who, because of something they have no control over, are neurodiverse. Because I'm not a C***.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

UnhingedSeagull94 · Jan 27, 2025

Labour can be decent but really need to lose Starmer, Rayner and Reeves.

WATFORD zero · Jan 27, 2025

Looks like I'll have to leave @Rdodge30 and @Is it PotG? to their own devices. I can do a starter, and a glass of wine with one hand whilst typing with the other, (had plenty of practice swatting away flies in the Med) but main course is on it's way and even I have my limits :bigwave:

nevergoagain · Jan 27, 2025

WATFORD zero said:
Well I certainly wouldn't have picked on people who, because of something they have no control over, are neurodiverse. Because I'm not a C***.

Hope this helps

Why don't you report to the mods if you've got a problem?. I'm pretty sure throwing C bombs around at people isn't allowed either. (no pointless emoji).

razer · Jan 27, 2025

WATFORD zero said:
Well I certainly wouldn't have picked on people who, because of something they have no control over, are neurodiverse. Because I'm not a C***.

Hope this helps

And what makes you think you're not a ****. Plenty of posters seem to think you are and they can't all be wrong.

cunning fergus · Jan 27, 2025

Bold Seagull said:
Not the global financial crash that left the world's economy with higher inflation, higher unemployment and higher national debt?

Yeah, the global financial crash that created problems in the U.K. far worse than many other countries also affected.

This was the country which knighted Fred Goodwin, saw the demise of Bradford and Bingley, Northern Rock, and the merger of HBOS with Lloyds.

It’s why Ed Balls, the chancellor (I know the noughties were absolutely hatstand) apologised in the HoC.

the Guardian

Ed Balls: I'm sorry for Labour failures on bank regulation

Balls seeks to restore public trust in Labour by apologising for failures that contributed to 2008 banking crisis and refusing to make premature tax and spending pledges

search.app

I’m guessing you were too young to remember what really happened.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 27, 2025

Rdodge30 said:
Whilst it is most certainly true that the last Labour Government left the country with higher inflation- higher unemployment and higher national debt to GDP than the Tories left us last year… Gordon Brown was almost certainly more to blame than Tony Blair.

I was joking ffs.

You're assessment is shockingly one-eyed.

As it happens Brown mitigated against the worst effects of the sub-prime lending debacle that emanated in the US, due to his interventions. Typically Brown did not brag about this. But the Tories gleefully seized on the financial crash, and private banks going bust, to justify 'austerity' which was another word for f***ing over the working class with zero pay rises for donkey's years. All part of the long term 'rebalancing' to create a captive workforce for whom a mortgage is now impossible without the bank of mum and dad.

Looking at inflation, it was shocking during the Johnson/Truss/Sunk years, but before that you have to go back to John Major for high numbers. All tories. Fancy that:

Historical UK inflation rates and price conversion calculator

View the history of UK inflation rates and convert prices between any year in the range 1751 to 2024

iamkate.com

Looking at debt to GDP ratio, it started to go up after the sub prime lending debacle, and has stayed high throughout 'call me Dave' and the other tory cretins that followed, eventually settling down till it was kick started again by Brexit. It was a decade of stability under Blair/Brown.

Looking at unemployment, Labour got it down year after year, and it went up only when the sub prime lending issue hit. Cameron came in in 2010 and unemployment did not start to come down till 4 years later. If unemployment is your arbiter of success then the Big Disgrace was Thatcher who almost trebled unemployment with a few years of being elected.

Curious Orange · Jan 27, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Sounds like a reset to 1955 to me.

Why do I feel like I've just been outed as a bit of a leftie?

Simster · Jan 27, 2025

abc said:
And what a disaster she has made of it

Well personally, whilst admitting it is not a great budget at all, I am not convinced it is the disaster the right wing press is making out. I will explain my reasoning: the problem is that this Labour government promised taxes wouldn't go up for the working man. I don't think that failing to recognise the extent of the mismanagement beforehand is an excuse here, you simply can't make promises like that.

The Conservatives have broken everything - from trebling the national debt, to leaving public services on their knees, from sending food bank usage to previously unseen levels to skyrocketing mortgage rates and even inflation at one point, they have ruined the nation. Fixing the nation needs to be paid for, and Labour can pay for that in one of 3 ways - by reducing public services, public borrowing, or raising taxes.

The first option is impossible, as services are on their knees already. The second option alone would send the economically illiterate into meltdown, and the last one they promised not to do, which was their mistake. So she has ended up taxing businesses to the hilt, which stifles growth.

My solution would have been moderate income tax rises, hefty inheritance tax rises and any shortfall made up by a sensible level of borrowing. But then I'm not a qualified economist.

Eeyore · Jan 27, 2025

Someone earlier in the thread suggested the UK deficit was 4%. I'm not sure where those figures came from. It's 101% according to the IMF. If the UK was a business it would be insolvent. Technically it is and has been for some time.

Threads like this often get petty and ignore the real elephant, or herd of elephants in the room. I'll make one contribution further.

The tax burden in the UK is possibly the highest since the 1950s. I'm guessing at that, but I'm sure stats won't be far off. There is a reason for this. Not because the government is greedy, but because it cannot afford to meet its commitments.

Think of like this. Thatcher was correct when she said running a country is like is running a household. Money in, money out. The UK has maxed its credit cards but keeps getting new ones. The tax burden is still not enough.

Nothing the Tories or Labour have done is making the cold hard facts go away. Other countries can do it cheaper. Why ? because most don't have the same living standards as us or they make stuff that people want, often cheaper. Trump knows this, with the U.S running an even higher deficit. That's why he's acting like he is.

No amount of political posturing will change this. We have a health service we cannot afford, a welfare system we cannot afford, a willy waving defence budget we cannot afford and just about everything else we cannot afford. The only hope is to downsize. But governments won't do that because it loses them elections and people don't like to have social responsibilities that have once been offloaded elsewhere. Developing countries will simply look at us and say 'diddums'

So if folk don't like being taxed then offer an alternative. If folk think everything Labour are doing is awful then ask why a lot what they are doing is not reported in the press. We know why. It's not reported because the media has a right wing bias and the elephant is somehow hidden.

I don't know what the solution is, but I do know it's unlikely to get better. I don't know if this government is any better than the last, but the truth is a lot of society's failings are little to do with the government. They are just a convenient scapegoat to deflect from individual responsibility. Why might crime figures be up ? Not because Khan is running London, but because we still have a society with a lot of wankers. That's our fault, not his.

Over 1,000 posts on this thread and still the elephant stands there. And no amount of 'My Dad's better than yours' will make it better. The government is not a parent. It is a steward of the nation's finances. And I suspect the treasury are sitting there staring blankly at the wall every day not knowing how to balance the books. The only way it can be done is by introducing cuts, or more social responsibility. At the risk of sounding a bit 'right wing' in my view of this, and seemingly advocating small government, I do advocate such a thing when looking at reality but my view of government is the polar opposite. One of it's primary functions is to protect the welfare of its citizens, especially the vulnerable. The primary emphasis should always be on being the facilitator of life's basics and not an unequal greedy nation. But it can no longer be expected to do it alone via the credit cards. Your grandchildren will not thank you.

And if anyone wants to know why Sunak called an election he was clearly going to get thumped in, the current situation is the answer. They saw it coming.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 27, 2025

WATFORD zero said:
I agree he is ignorant, but most of us make posts that others of a different view could be considered ignorant, particularly if you lament the loss of Johnson, Truss etc like our friend.

However, not being happy with simple trolling, ignorance and stupidity, spending months setting up accounts to deliberately pick on people who have been open and honest about their neurodiversity on NSC is a little different.

By a little different, I mean completely and absolutely c***ish and I'm not sure anyone would try and defend that

Apparently you are a very bad man. I read it on this thread. And apparently everyone agrees.

(I presume the everyone is the array of multiple personalities that inform the opinion of the person in question).

Chicken Run · Jan 27, 2025

WATFORD zero said:
Looks like I'll have to leave @Rdodge30 and @Is it PotG? to their own devices. I can do a starter, and a glass of wine with one hand whilst typing with the other, (had plenty of practice swatting away flies in the Med) but main course is on it's way and even I have my limits

f*** me i’ve had the displeasure of reading more that enough bullshit from you over the years but even for you this is up there with the best, I’m not sure wether i find it amusing or indeed somewhat worrying that you’ve allowed PotG to not just live rent free in your head but completely take ownership of it, give your head a wobble and try and shake those voices out of it you fool.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 27, 2025

Curious Orange said:
Why do I feel like I've just been outed as a bit of a leftie?

I would love an environmental reset and several other things.
As it happens I am not sure that reopening the coal mines is a great plan.
Even if it would allow Scargill to buy himself a new Crown Topper.

Trouble is all we are hearing right now is the screeching of right wing arse-hats claiming that Labour have tanked the economy.
Apparently Starmer is the worst prime minister for 50 years.
And the Home Secretary is even more dangerous that the Luftwaffe.

It is hard to have an adult conversation with all these noisy wankers shouting their mad bollocks.

nevergoagain · Jan 27, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I would love an environmental reset and several other things.
As it happens I am not sure that reopening the coal mines is a great plan.
Even if it would allow Scargill to buy himself a new Crown Topper.

Trouble is all we are hearing right now is the screeching of right wing arse-hats claiming that Labour have tanked the economy.
Apparently Starmer is the worst prime minister for 50 years.
And the Home Secretary is even more dangerous that the Luftwaffe.

It is hard to have an adult conversation with all these noisy wankers shouting their mad bollocks.

adult conversation you say, whilst calling those who dare to disagree with you arse-hats and wankers. Very odd behaviour for a grown man.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 27, 2025

beorhthelm said:
if you can trade the quota, it wouldn't help emissions, just increase price of flights for some.

I’d does help as you can control emissions with this approach. For example if current emissions are x, and you want to half them, divvy up x/2 between everyone.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 27, 2025

Eeyore said:
Someone earlier in the thread suggested the UK deficit was 4%. I'm not sure where those figures came from. It's 101% according to the IMF. If the UK was a business it would be insolvent. Technically it is and has been for some time.

Threads like this often get petty and ignore the real elephant, or herd of elephants in the room. I'll make one contribution further.

The tax burden in the UK is possibly the highest since the 1950s. I'm guessing at that, but I'm sure stats won't be far off. There is a reason for this. Not because the government is greedy, but because it cannot afford to meet its commitments.

Think of like this. Thatcher was correct when she said running a country is like is running a household. Money in, money out. The UK has maxed its credit cards but keeps getting new ones. The tax burden is still not enough.

Nothing the Tories or Labour have done is making the cold hard facts go away. Other countries can do it cheaper. Why ? because most don't have the same living standards as us or they make stuff that people want, often cheaper. Trump knows this, with the U.S running an even higher deficit. That's why he's acting like he is.

No amount of political posturing will change this. We have a health service we cannot afford, a welfare system we cannot afford, a willy waving defence budget we cannot afford and just about everything else we cannot afford. The only hope is to downsize. But governments won't do that because it loses them elections and people don't like to have social responsibilities that have once been offloaded elsewhere. Developing countries will simply look at us and say 'diddums'

So if folk don't like being taxed then offer an alternative. If folk think everything Labour are doing is awful then ask why a lot what they are doing is not reported in the press. We know why. It's not reported because the media has a right wing bias and the elephant is somehow hidden.

I don't know what the solution is, but I do know it's unlikely to get better. I don't know if this government is any better than the last, but the truth is a lot of society's failings are little to do with the government. They are just a convenient scapegoat to deflect from individual responsibility. Why might crime figures be up ? Not because Khan is running London, but because we still have a society with a lot of wankers. That's our fault, not his.

Over 1,000 posts on this thread and still the elephant stands there. And no amount of 'My Dad's better than yours' will make it better. The government is not a parent. It is a steward of the nation's finances. And I suspect the treasury are sitting there staring blankly at the wall every day not knowing how to balance the books. The only way it can be done is by introducing hardship, or more social responsibility. At the risk of sounding a bit 'right wing' in my view of this, and seemingly advocating small government, I do advocate such things when looking at reality but my view of government is the polar opposite. One of it's primary functions is to protect the welfare of its citizens, especially the vulnerable. The primary emphasis should always be on being the facilitator of life's basics and not an unequal greedy nation. But it can no longer be expected to do it alone via the credit cards. Your grandchildren will not thank you.

And if anyone wants to know why Sunak called an election he was clearly going to get thumped in, the current situation is the answer. They saw it coming.

Absolutely spot on.

One small aspect is people like me being goaded into defending ludicrous comments about Labour
This all seems to be part of the matrix now.

I have never been one to say it is all the fault of the tories.
Till his cabinet went venal and he started randomly privatising things Major was *OK*.
Till he took that great Brexit gamble, even 'Call me' Dave was *OK*
It seems that everything got bad after the financial crash because instead of getting on with it the nation got Brexit fever.

My question is this.
Who wins from all this chaos and instability and malcontent?
Whose agenda is being served by the creation of an unsatisfiable electorate?
An electorate that wants only what it cannot have (low taxes, high level public services and low crime)?
Whose game are we playing here?

Eeyore · Jan 27, 2025

UnhingedSeagull94 said:
Labour can be decent but really need to lose Starmer, Rayner and Reeves.

You make it sound like a football match. With fans of both sides goading and making offensive chants at each other.

On reflection, sadly I think you may have it right.

Bodian · Jan 27, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Trouble is all we are hearing right now is the screeching of right wing arse-hats claiming that Labour have tanked the economy.

Reeves is surely to blame for tomorrow's impending stock-market crash as well.....

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