[Albion] Penalty, or...

Flounce · 2025-01-26T12:17:08+0000

oldboyroy said:
Danny Murphy definitely a pen, Gary Lineker "why would Veltnam deliberately handle the ball away?"
My opinion is Veltnam felt the contact, went down expecting a foul and hit the ball to safety with his hand in a moment of madness!

The ref had Veltman’s number yesterday, there was a nudge in the first half as he attacked and he went down like he’d been pole axed, the ref waved play on, Joel got up gesticulating and mouthing off. He possibly should have remembered that as he went down in the penalty area. Ref’s were always likely to wise up to his theatrics, he has got away with a lot of them this season.

oldboyroy · 2025-01-26T13:03:16+0000

One Love said:
Only because Lineker is saying there isn't a player in the league who would do that deliberately.

Yes there is, it's Joel Veltman who thinks he can do anything and get away with it.

It's only a matter of time for his shithousery to cost us more points.

That's the thing. It looked like Veltnam did do it deliberately hoping to get away with it. He changed direction of ball putting it out of play to either prevent the Everton player nudging it in or prevent ball going in itself (which looked like it WAS doing)? The Premier league confirmed it was deliberate hand ball hence ref called to monitor to look at it

aolstudios · 2025-01-26T14:45:08+0000

Professor Plum said:
Veltman doing what Veltman does, and this time he didn’t get away with it, indirectly leading to us losing the game. I know a lot of people love good old Velts's shithousery — probably the same people who get so worked up about opposition players doing the same to us — but I hate it. He’s a very decent player, as shown at OT, and doesn’t need to behave like this.

Not having a single shot on target led to us losing the game

Hamilton · 2025-01-26T14:49:25+0000

Technically it’s a penalty, so I voted yes. But at full speed there’s definitely pressure put on Joel and his arm is knocked so he’s out of control. There’s certainly not enough to warrant VAR getting involved as the ref saw it all and made a call.

drew · 2025-01-26T15:07:11+0000

I don't think it was a penalty. Veltman goes down, possibly a foul, possibly a bit weak. However his right arm is in front of the body of the Everton player who's movement pushes Veltman's arm to the left and the contact of the ball. I agree with Lineker that it was not a deliberate movement by Veltman.

kevo · 2025-01-26T15:10:52+0000

I'm not sure, but the fact that folk are still debating it along with the pundits means it is not clear and obvious, therefore the original decision should not have been overturned - especially with the 'high bar' that's supposed to be in place for VAR these days.

banjo · 2025-01-26T15:18:50+0000

Just flipping it around, If Veltman was the player behind pushing the Everton player, would the ref give us the handball or a pen for the push ?? So 50/50, so not clear and obvious.

Bodian · 2025-01-26T19:50:10+0000

It's not that the ref missed it entirely. The ref must have seen the contact between Veltman's hand and the ball to give a penalty. So, the only thing VAR was highlighting was whether there was a deliberate move of hand to ball.

It did look as though there was.

aolstudios · 2025-01-26T21:46:09+0000

Bodian said:
It's not that the ref missed it entirely. The ref must have seen the contact between Veltman's hand and the ball to give a penalty. So, the only thing VAR was highlighting was whether there was a deliberate move of hand to ball.

It did look as though there was.

He gave a corner.
Until var called him to the monitor

Bodian · 2025-01-26T21:49:21+0000

aolstudios said:
He gave a corner.
Until var called him to the monitor

Yes - that's what I mean. He saw the hand-ball contact and didn't think it was a penalty. So VAR encouraged him to take a look as they thought it was an 'unnatural' move.

dejavuatbtn · 2025-01-26T21:55:13+0000

The master of the dark arts thought he’d take the opportunity to nudge the ball away whilst on the way down working out the percentages of him being spotted. Unfortunately he lost the bet.

Easy 10 · 2025-01-26T22:02:15+0000

Veltman pushed the shithousery to the limit again, and this time he got caught out. Having seen the replays, its clearly a deliberate hand-to-ball movement when he flicks the ball away as he fell, thinking he'd get away with it. He didn't, and it cost us. It was so bloody unnecessary as well. Idiot.

The only thing I would say in mitigation is that I think he was fouled - he was barged over. Which means that the handball should have been neither here nor there, as the foul on him happened first, so it should have been a free kick to BHA.

But as others have mentioned, I think Veltmans card is now marked with refs. People seem to find all his shithousing hilarious, but we're not going to be laughing quite as much when these antics start costing us points, as they did yesterday.

London Irish · 2025-01-27T00:14:03+0000

Flounce said:
The ref had Veltman’s number yesterday, there was a nudge in the first half as he attacked and he went down like he’d been pole axed, the ref waved play on, Joel got up gesticulating and mouthing off. He possibly should have remembered that as he went down in the penalty area. Ref’s were always likely to wise up to his theatrics, he has got away with a lot of them this season.

His attempts to con refs have been become a thing of comedy celebrated on here all season as they’ve been weirdly successful. But it was always going to catch up on him sooner or later - definitely got a shelf life stuff like this

London Irish · 2025-01-27T00:20:10+0000

banjo said:
Just flipping it around, If Veltman was the player behind pushing the Everton player, would the ref give us the handball or a pen for the push ?? So 50/50, so not clear and obvious.

Most clear and obvious handball you’ll ever see in your life. Like everyone I looked hard to see if a foul would save him and rather depressingly there was absolutely minimal contact so there it is

nickjhs · 2025-01-27T00:40:10+0000

It would have been fine if he had just touched the ball as he fell, but he clearly sweeps the bloody thing away from the attacker (his eyes are focused on the ball the whole time), which took the attention away from the fact that he had been fouled. So while it probably should have been a corner/foul he turned it into a penalty. Bloody stupid

Krafty · 2025-01-27T00:45:47+0000

It's definitely a penalty.

Kalimantan Gull · 2025-01-27T01:02:28+0000

Dorset Seagull said:
Perhaps the answer to VAR is have 1 bloke at Stockley Park whose only job is to run the VT on the pitch monitor if the referee decides he wants to see a piece of action again if he is unsure about something critical

THIS. In my mind the only person who should direct the ref to look at the monitor is the ref himself. He could do this every time a goal is scored, he awards a penalty or gives a red card, as a matter of course, or when he isn't sure about something and wants to check it out. And combine it with automated offsides (with a bit if leeway built in) Some stuff will be missed, it might take a bit of time, but at least there is one guy reffing the game.

oldboyroy · 2025-01-27T05:39:02+0000

Bodian said:
Yes - that's what I mean. He saw the hand-ball contact and didn't think it was a penalty. So VAR encouraged him to take a look as they thought it was an 'unnatural' move.

Did the ref see the handball though? I didn't think he did as was on blind side hence, he gave corner. Everton rightly appealed and Var looked at it?

Uh_huh_him · 2025-01-27T06:14:08+0000

London Irish said:
His attempts to con refs have been become a thing of comedy celebrated on here all season as they’ve been weirdly successful. But it was always going to catch up on him sooner or later - definitely got a shelf life stuff like this

He doesn't attempt to con refs though.

He gets himself into a position where a push from an opponent is a foul and then falls over to get the freekick.
Lots of players do it. He just does it a lot.

Uh_huh_him · 2025-01-27T06:17:18+0000

oldboyroy said:
Did the ref see the handball though? I didn't think he did as was on blind side hence, he gave corner. Everton rightly appealed and Var looked at it?

Yeah this.
My guess is the comms between VAR and the ref will be -
- Did you see the handball?
- No I didn't.
- Go to the screen then and make your call.

If the ref saw the hand ball and told VAR, yeah but it looked accidental, then I would expect VAR to say - OK, not enough evidence to overturn.
It will be interesting to hear what was actually said.

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