[Albion] Penalty, or...

[highflyer]

He doesn't attempt to con refs though.

He absolutely does.
Joel seems like a nice man. But he's a dirty footballer. Live by the sword, die by the sword. That was an obvious penalty, but the referee didn't see the movement of his arm and it is possible he may have been given benefit of the doubt. If he wasn't Joel.Veltman.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

He absolutely does.
Joel seems like a nice man. But he's a dirty footballer. Live by the sword, die by the sword. That was an obvious penalty, but the referee didn't see the movement of his arm and it is possible he may have been given benefit of the doubt. If he wasn't Joel.Veltman.

So he cons ref when he hasn't been shoved does he?

You are massively under-estimating him, if you think that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

He absolutely does.
Joel seems like a nice man. But he's a dirty footballer. Live by the sword, die by the sword. That was an obvious penalty, but the referee didn't see the movement of his arm and it is possible he may have been given benefit of the doubt. If he wasn't Joel.Veltman.

Ah, got it. PGMOL have got a vendetta against Joel Veltman. Stockley Park has his mugshot on the wall.

 

[dazzer6666]

Did the ref see the handball though? I didn't think he did as was on blind side hence, he gave corner. Everton rightly appealed and Var looked at it?

I don’t think he saw it, Veltman was in the air and perhaps tilting towards WSL a bit when he did it so the ref would have only seen his side/back (hence we had such a clear view of him punching the ball away from where we sit)

 

[Left Footer]

I thought Veltman was playing for the expected push in the back which may or may not have happened.

Can't be a corner as it is a clear handball, it's either a penalty or a free kick to us.
I thought penalty and not really changed my mind.

 

[oldboyroy]

I don’t think he saw it, Veltman was in the air and perhaps tilting towards WSL a bit when he did it so the ref would have only seen his side/back (hence we had such a clear view of him punching the ball away from where we sit)

Nail on head with word 'punching' as that's exactly what Veltnam did. Looked like he was a goalkeeper diverting it off the line

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

He doesn't attempt to con refs though.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Most clear and obvious handball you’ll ever see in your life.

I’m sure we have all seen plenty of clear and obvious handballs watching football, this wasn’t one of them otherwise a penalty would have been immediately given.
Watching close up video replays it does look like clear handball, I was watching the match from the WSU on Saturday afternoon and it definitely wasn’t clear.
I’m sure thousands of Albion fans also at the time didn’t think it was clear and obvious.

 

[Bodian]

Did the ref see the handball though? I didn't think he did as was on blind side hence, he gave corner. Everton rightly appealed and Var looked at it?

Yeah this.
My guess is the comms between VAR and the ref will be -
- Did you see the handball?
- No I didn't.
- Go to the screen then and make your call.

If the ref saw the hand ball and told VAR, yeah but it looked accidental, then I would expect VAR to say - OK, not enough evidence to overturn.
It will be interesting to hear what was actually said.

I don’t think he saw it, Veltman was in the air and perhaps tilting towards WSL a bit when he did it so the ref would have only seen his side/back (hence we had such a clear view of him punching the ball away from where we sit)

Ref must have seen it - why else would he have given a corner? ie: he thought the last touch was off Veltman.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Ref must have seen it - why else would he have given a corner? ie: he thought the last touch was off Veltman.

doesn't mean he thought it was his hand.
Velts was trying to head it out.

 

[Bodian]

doesn't mean he thought it was his hand.
Velts was trying to head it out.

Are you saying that ref's just 'guess' what might have happened and who it last touched?? Surely not!!

 

[Robinjakarta]

Sadly lots of people sounding like Arsenal fans in this thread

And Fab like Arteta.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I’m sure we have all seen plenty of clear and obvious handballs watching football, this wasn’t one of them otherwise a penalty would have been immediately given.
Watching close up video replays it does look like clear handball, I was watching the match from the WSU on Saturday afternoon and it definitely wasn’t clear.
I’m sure thousands of Albion fans also at the time didn’t think it was clear and obvious.

Exactly ….(oops I’ve got to be careful here otherwise I’ll be accused of sounding like an Arsenal fan )

 

[Curious Orange]

Can't be a corner as it is a clear handball, it's either a penalty or a free kick to us.

Exactly.

It looked a foul from the WSU, and the replays haven't changed my mind on that. Interestingly I haven't seen a clear angle on the other Everton player's challenge, only Beto's yank on Veltman's shoulder - so I have no idea whether he was being fouled by just one or both Everton players.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Exactly.

It looked a foul from the WSU, and the replays haven't changed my mind on that. Interestingly I haven't seen a clear angle on the other Everton player's challenge, only Beto's yank on Veltman's shoulder - so I have no idea whether he was being fouled by just one or both Everton players.

So you've seen the reply and genuinely still believe it was a foul? I am really surprised by that and again, it shows why VAR will never fully work and why we have to accept referee's will make mistakes and decisions that lots of fans/players/managers will never agree with.

You're never going to get everyone to agree with the majority of decisions on a football pitch. To me there was absolutely nothing in that challenge, it was just really weak defending and poor decision making by Joel.

 

[dazzer6666]

Ref must have seen it - why else would he have given a corner? ie: he thought the last touch was off Veltman.

Not really- he has to make a judgement based on what he can see……..really doubt the final touch (Joel actually slapping it) was visible to him.

 

[Milano]

Lineker (for once) makes the most sense. Why would an experienced defender deliberately do that? Answer = he wouldn't. His arms going out are because he's going to hit the deck, it's an involuntary action. Caused because he's been nudged in the back = a foul.
However what really annoys me is why VAR yet again get involved in something which in no way is 'clear and obvious'?

West Ham could have had a penalty yesterday for handball, did VAR get involved, no.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Lineker (for once) makes the most sense. Why would an experienced defender deliberately do that? Answer = he wouldn't. His arms going out are because he's going to hit the deck, it's an involuntary action. Caused because he's been nudged in the back = a foul.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Lineker (for once) makes the most sense. Why would an experienced defender deliberately do that? Answer = he wouldn't. His arms going out are because he's going to hit the deck, it's an involuntary action. Caused because he's been nudged in the back = a foul.
However what really annoys me is why VAR yet again get involved in something which in no way is 'clear and obvious'?

West Ham could have had a penalty yesterday for handball, did VAR get involved, no.

Well Veltman regularly goes to ground under pressure to win a free-kick and often grabs the ball to emphasise clearly that he has been fouled.
Hopefully he learns from this and only does it when he is outside the box in future.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It's really weird being on the other side of these debates for once.