[Football] West ham and Potter

Weststander · 2025-01-23T23:47:49+0000

Han Solo said:
Always nice hearing someone who shares my frustration. Extremists won't like you because you're a "f***ing Commie Jew", mainstreamers will either think you're an anti-semite or into bombing hospitals or act as if you're made of glass, and half or so of Jewish communities will see you as either a "self-hater" or "too much of a goyim". Usually I argue against all of it but when I'm pissed off I like to make everyone else feel pissed off (like they want) through pretending they're right.

f*** me I'm not supposed to talk these things. Day off NSC it is... don't make any fun signings... and don't say nothing nasty about my Potter..

You didn’t talk about Gaza.

You sneered at Jewish people with very old tropes peddled long before 1945.

Even one of your allies said ”You’re beyond defending”.

Gary1 · 2025-01-24T06:08:55+0000

Some of you are a strange lot on here

dazzer6666 · 2025-01-24T06:30:19+0000

Goldstone1976 said:
You explicitly agreed with me to never talk about this subject. You have. A month off. It’ll be permanent if you do so on your return.

That’s harsh imo, it was in the context of replying to someone else (yet again) digging up old corpses wasn’t it ? HS should have a right of reply when someone else starts talking about him, unless you’re happy to see a one-sided pile-on, which we’ll now get (further derailing another thread)

Herr Tubthumper · 2025-01-24T06:44:39+0000

Simster said:
I don't really understand why so many people have such extreme opinions on Potter.

For me, the facts are that he took over a dysfunctional Hughton team and slowly changed the way we play,ed for the better, and blooded youngsters (as was his remit). We as fans were EXTREMELY patient with him, but just when it seemed he'd got it right (years later, after some frustrating, barren periods) he upped and left. The second half of his final season was a joy to watch and he left us looking like title/Europe contenders, six games in. What upsets many on here is not so much that he left, but some of the quotes - an easy life, history lesson etc. Fair enough to be upset, there's no reason why fans should like that sort of thing, and it's this that makes us laugh as his failure since leaving.

What I don't like are the double standards compared with RDZ. He didn't leave with fan-unfriendly quotes but his conduct was still shit.

Good point regarding the double standards. RDZ was far more toxic. In his last 6 months he pretty much gave up, blamed everyone but himself, criticized the board etc.

Green Cross Code Man · 2025-01-24T06:52:02+0000

Herr Tubthumper said:
Good point regarding the double standards. RDZ was far more toxic. In his last 6 months he pretty much gave up, blamed everyone but himself, criticized the board etc.

I agree. However Potter was seen to be loyal, reliable and a little bit grey, a safe option maybe like John Major was for the Tories. RDZ was like that girlfriend who you knew you shouldn't be with but everyone else wanted. It was clear she was trouble, but the good times were so good that you'd overlook the inevitable onrushing crash.

Potter shocked most of us as we thought he was here for the long-term, especially as he'd seen a lot of patience from both fans and managment. RDZ and his departure not so much.

Green Cross Code Man · 2025-01-24T06:55:24+0000

Chicken Run said:
I think for me if we are going to compare De Zerbi to Potter, when Potter joined i had a genuine belief he was here to build this club from bottom to top for the long term, i was comfortable that the board backed him for the long term and i felt comfortable and yes some times frustrated with his methods, fast forward to his exit and that came as a complete shock, not only why but how it played out.

When RDZ joined i felt that yes he was a talented coach but at no point did i see him here for the long term so it wasn’t such a shock when he departed

That’s why i think there is a dislike for Potter more than RDZ

Precisely!

Herr Tubthumper · 2025-01-24T07:04:39+0000

I’d also like to know more about RDZ’s mysterious Italian dental appointment.

Goldstone1976 · 2025-01-24T07:15:58+0000

dazzer6666 said:
That’s harsh imo, it was in the context of replying to someone else (yet again) digging up old corpses wasn’t it ? HS should have a right of reply when someone else starts talking about him, unless you’re happy to see a one-sided pile-on, which we’ll now get (further derailing another thread)

There is a very significant number of folk who strongly objected to his return when it became obvious that HS is Swansman. There was extensive discussion in Mod Towers about whether he was allowed back, with some mods strongly arguing that he should not be.

In the end, to the permanent disapproval of several users of the site, and some mods, he was allowed back, providing he steered completely clear of certain subjects, in particular discussions about anti-semitism.

I personally agreed with him the ground rules governing his return. He agreed them. He’s reneged. He’s seeing the consequences.

I agree that a month is harsh; it is absolutely intended to be. It is intended to be seen as an absolutely final warning - stay within the boundaries we agreed that governed your return to the site, or never post again; under this name or any other.

I was one of the few mods who advocated for his return. If he cocks this up, he’ll have no advocates. It’s entirely his call - no one made him breach his agreement. No one made him acknowledge in his post that he shouldn’t be posting on that topic.

:shrug:

dazzer6666 · 2025-01-24T07:21:23+0000

Goldstone1976 said:
There is a very significant number of folk who strongly objected to his return when it became obvious that HS is Swansman. There was extensive discussion in Mod Towers about whether he was allowed back, with some mods strongly arguing that he should not be.

In the end, to the permanent disapproval of several users of the site, and some mods, he was allowed back, providing he steered completely clear of certain subjects, in particular discussions about anti-semitism.

I personally agreed with him the ground rules governing his return. He agreed them. He’s reneged. He’s seeing the consequences.

I agree that a month is harsh; it is absolutely intended to be. It is intended to be seen as an absolutely final warning - stay within the boundaries we agreed that governed your return to the site, or never post again; under this name or any other.

I was one of the few mods who advocated for his return. If he cocks this up, he’ll have no advocates. It’s entirely his call - no one made him breach his agreement. No one made him acknowledge in his post that he shouldn’t be posting on that topic.

Whatever, Mods Rule :shrug:

(as it has to be) . I’d wager there are at least an equal or greater number that recognise his insightful input on football stuff is very interesting. I personally still don’t like people not having a right of reply to comments about them.

Simster · 2025-01-24T07:27:57+0000

Green Cross Code Man said:
I agree. However Potter was seen to be loyal, reliable and a little bit grey, a safe option maybe like John Major was for the Tories. RDZ was like that girlfriend who you knew you shouldn't be with but everyone else wanted. It was clear she was trouble, but the good times were so good that you'd overlook the inevitable onrushing crash.

Potter shocked most of us as we thought he was here for the long-term, especially as he'd seen a lot of patience from both fans and managment. RDZ and his departure not so much.

The girlfriend/RDZ analogy is used a lot on here but it is a load of crap and does nothing more than excuse that bloke's shit conduct. Who says he was that girl apart from those people writing this nonsense? I doubt our board thought along those lines when they hired him and he accepted the conditions attached.

Honestly, you'd think his managerial career had been a glittering list of sizable clubs across the continent's biggest leagues. Well it wasn't. He had managed four of five very small Italian clubs that non-football fans would never have heard of, and then Shakhtar Donetsk. We took a chance on him, he picked up what was a fabulous team, and got us to Europe. He was then backed and when most of them proved a waste of money (especially Ansu Fati) and the board pushed back on his wish list, he literally stopped doing his job and sulked.

I don't have particularly good feelings about either Potter or RDZ anymore and hope they both fail - because they both behaved like utter tossers. But we shouldn't let RDZ off lightly if we are going to absolutely slaughter Potter on here over and over again.

Green Cross Code Man · 2025-01-24T07:32:46+0000

Simster said:
The girlfriend/RDZ analogy is used a lot on here but it is a load crap and does nothing more than excuse that bloke's shit conduct. Who says he was that girl apart from those people writing this nonsense? I doubt our board thought along those lines when they hired him and he accepted the conditions attached.

Honestly, you'd think his managerial career had been a glittering list of sizable clubs across the continent's biggest leagues. Well it wasn't. He had managed four of five very small Italian clubs that non-football fans would never have heard of, and then Shakhtar Donetsk. We took a chance on him, he picked up what was a fabulous team, and got us to Europe. He was then backed and when most of them proved a waste of money (especially Ansu Fati) and the board pushed back on his wish list, he literally stopped doing his job and sulked.

I don't have particularly good feelings about either Potter or RDZ anymore and hope they both fail - because they both behaved like utter tossers. But we shouldn't let RDZ off lightly if we are going to absolutely slaughter Potter on here over and over again.

There may also be some truth in what you say. But RDZ and our attitude towards him relates perhaps to how he made most of us feel. He bigged up the club while simultaneously enlarging his own reputation, and inflating his already large ego I have no doubt, in the process. In respect, Potter never did that, maybe it was a case of the King is in the altogether as far as RDZ but I would hazard that the last part of what I said holds true, that we thought we had a dependable manager in Potter and he shocked us, whereas probably no-one thought RDZ would stay around for long.

Goldstone1976 · 2025-01-24T07:35:31+0000

dazzer6666 said:
Whatever, Mods Rule (as it has to be) . I’d wager there are at least an equal or greater number that recognise his insightful input on football stuff is very interesting. I personally still don’t like people not having a right of reply to comments about them.

There are indeed a lot of people who recognise his insightful input on football. I’m one of them, which is why I advocated for his return.

I agree - the lack of a right to reply disconcerts me too. But he knowingly breached an agreement he made that governed his return. Further, he acknowledged in his post that he was doing so, and that he’d be banned. In my view by taking these two actions he forfeited his right to post more for a while. You’ll note that I have not taken down his post - he has exercised his right of reply and I’ve left his reply visible.

On balance, I’m ok with the actions I took (I would be, wouldn’t I?). I fully accept that not all people will agree with me - but moderating a forum is, imo, not a popularity contest.

BadFish · 2025-01-24T07:43:40+0000

Goldstone1976 said:
There are indeed a lot of people who recognise his insightful input on football. I’m one of them, which is why I advocated for his return.

I agree - the lack of a right to reply disconcerts me too. But he knowingly breached an agreement he made that governed his return. Further, he acknowledged in his post that he was doing so, and that he’d be banned. In my view by taking these two actions he forfeited his right to post more for a while. You’ll note that I have not taken down his post - he has exercised his right of reply and I’ve left his reply visible.

On balance, I’m ok with the actions I took (I would be, wouldn’t I?). I fully accept that not all people will agree with me - but moderating a forum is, imo, not a popularity contest.

Fwiw it seems fair to me.

A right of reply is a right that comes with responsibilities.

Swegulls · 2025-01-24T07:47:58+0000

I would also have handed Kosh a yellow card here, but that's just me.

Lever · 2025-01-24T07:49:32+0000

Chicken Run said:
I think for me if we are going to compare De Zerbi to Potter, when Potter joined i had a genuine belief he was here to build this club from bottom to top for the long term, i was comfortable that the board backed him for the long term and i felt comfortable and yes some times frustrated with his methods, fast forward to his exit and that came as a complete shock, not only why but how it played out.

When RDZ joined i felt that yes he was a talented coach but at no point did i see him here for the long term so it wasn’t such a shock when he departed

That’s why i think there is a dislike for Potter more than RDZ

Wow! That's a first.... I actually completely agree with you. I would just add (as I am sure someone else will have commented and apologies for not noticing), that Potter didn't just leave for a more lucrative future, which was wholly understandable; he either passively or actively oversaw the gutting of Brighton's managerial and backroom staff. As Paul Barber commented, that act destroyed plan B, and although he didn't say so, for less adroit clubs, it might well have been disastrous. That is unforgivable.

Springal · 2025-01-24T07:56:29+0000

Lever said:
Wow! That's a first.... I actually completely agree with you. I would just add (as I am sure someone else will have commented and apologies for not noticing), that Potter didn't just leave for a more lucrative future, which was wholly understandable; he either passively or actively oversaw the gutting of Brighton's managerial and backroom staff. As Paul Barber commented, that act destroyed plan B, and for many clubs in our position it might well have been disastrous. That is unforgivable.

Which also shows what shit houses Ben Roberts & Bruno are

Lever · 2025-01-24T08:01:22+0000

Springal said:
Which also shows what shit houses Ben Roberts & Bruno are

In general, I agree, except if the door had not been left ajar or open for them, they could not have been tempted.....

Motogull · 2025-01-24T08:16:21+0000

dazzer6666 said:
Whatever, Mods Rule (as it has to be) . I’d wager there are at least an equal or greater number that recognise his insightful input on football stuff is very interesting. I personally still don’t like people not having a right of reply to comments about them.

I guess the solution if it emerges in the future would be to grass up a goader to see if that might nip it in the bud. Nobody likes a grass mind.

Goldstone1976 · 2025-01-24T08:25:46+0000

Swegulls said:
I would also have handed Kosh a yellow card here, but that's just me.

Yellow cards are not publicised…

Zeberdi · 2025-01-24T08:34:09+0000

Simster said:
We took a chance on him, he picked up what was a fabulous team, and got us to Europe. He was then backed and when most of them proved a waste of money (especially Ansu Fati) and the board pushed back on his wish list, he literally stopped doing his job and sulked.

We had tracked him for years as we do with all our potential managers. You make it sound as if we plucked him out of a bag with our eyes shut.

He only had a ‘fabulous team’ until the summer window of 2023/4. By December 2024, with 10 injured, it was far from ‘fabulous’! Yes, he inherited a good team but with that Potter team of 2022/23, he took us to a 6th place finish, the Europas and to Wembley in the SF of the FA Cup. Potter consolidated us as a Premier League Club and helped us develop a possession based style of football that had us for the first time finishing in the top half of the table and beating Big 6 Clubs.

Not sure what “wish list” you are referring to but everybody celebrated the signing of Fati and thought it was a real coup (even at £7-8m!) - the lad was known throughout Europe and before his meniscus injury, for one brilliant debut season, was being widely heralded as the closest thing Barca had produced to Messi. So yes, it was RDZ’s reputation that convinced the lad and his Dad he should leave the La Liga for a season and the personal phone call from him but the Club/David Weir/TB et al, really wanted him and no one, least of all RDZ, could predict he would end up being seriously injured again weeks after he started a loan spell he was suppose to be using to rehab a serious knee injury - otherwise IMO we could have seen a very special comeback.

Anyway we move on, as do our managers.

West Ham may be the the Club that Potter proves himself once and for all he is potentially a good Big Club manager by getting WHU near a good top half finish but with them languishing in 14th place he’s not going to do that unless they sign/borrow some strikers this window (having lost Niclas Fullkrug, Jarrod Bowen and Michail Antonio to long-term injuries) - at the moment that is not looking very promising.

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[Football] West ham and Potter

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