Affy
Silent Assassin
I always try and look at these objectively. If that was Delap on Bart I’d be screaming for a red. Therefore I think it was a red for JP and that’s 2 he’s got away with now.
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[Albion] Pedro's "challenge" on Walton
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
Yellow.
I honestly think that had Walton just driven the ball, rather than playing it at an angle, it would have been more of a glancing blow.
There was no way at that pace he was going to avoid him.
Dirty player - definitely not
Moody and likely to see the red mist quickly? Very much so (see elbow)
I honestly think that had Walton just driven the ball, rather than playing it at an angle, it would have been more of a glancing blow.
There was no way at that pace he was going to avoid him.
Dirty player - definitely not
Moody and likely to see the red mist quickly? Very much so (see elbow)
And the reason that this thread will run and run is that it's purely a matter of opinion if he endangers the safety of an opponent.
He's not leading with an elbow, he's not leading with either leg, he's turning his back and trying to soften the collision. If we're saying merely committing yourself to that challenge is endangering the safety then Walton has to get a red as well and that's clearly ridiculous.
Everyone agrees it's reckless and qualifies AT LEAST as a yellow. Not many can agree that he's deliberately endangering the safety of the player. If you think he is then you'll justifiably say red. If not, it's a yellow. Both the ref and VAR thought not, so this is merely an ex referee disagreeing with a current one on a matter of opinion.
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
He's certainly going to be under scrutiny now after he's been given the benefit of the doubt in 2 big calls now.
London Irish
Well-known member
Everyone around me in the stands feared red the instant it happened. Lot of relief when we first spied the yellow in the hand, as VAR reluctant to overturn on pitch call for this kind of stuff. Our luck was in last night in a lot of ways given those Ipswich first half misses
Called it as red at the time, not seen anything to change my mind
It’s a terrible challenge, late and both players were lucky to get up from it
It’s a terrible challenge, late and both players were lucky to get up from it
superseagull1994
Active member
- Jun 21, 2011
- 139
I just want to point out under the laws of the game it doesn't have to be deliberate
"SERIOUS FOUL PLAY: A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
Each to their own I guess. But you’re clearly in the minority in thinking that.
Muzzman
Pocket Rocket
Think that says more about the majority on NSC than anything else. Which is to be expected, I guess.
True but the full law also says "any player who lunges at" and, I'll be honest, I'm yet to see an accidental lunge.I just want to point out under the laws of the game it doesn't have to be deliberate
"SERIOUS FOUL PLAY: A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."
US Seagull
Well-known member
This was my thought too. He jumped to avoid having a foot planted when the inevitable deceleration came. Could very easily injure a knee or an ankle.
Intent isn't relevant here (Hackett's apparent mind-reading to posit that Joao Pedro knew exactly what he was doing is irrelevant too).
It still boils down to opinion though - did his action (deliberate or not) endanger the safety of Walton?
This of course leads to a rabbit hole of where one draws the line. As a contact sport, there will be many instances where a player endangers the safety of another to a degree that aren't even fouls, let alone a card (some players get seriously injured through innocuous challenges).
A yellow feels about right for this, though I would also understand a red, so classic orange card territory. Plenty defending Joao Pedro would be spitting feathers if it was Delap on Bart, that's for sure.
It's definitely not a patch on Schumacher vs Battiston (apols if posted earlier in the thread - I've not read it all)
Swimboy64
Well-known member
- Oct 19, 2022
- 575
He jumps into walton and from what I can see makes contact to Walton’s chest with his shoulder and like braggfan said in rugby he’s off
I think it’s definitely intentional,what other reason is there to jump in the manner he did
Very lucky and personally can’t make any case for anything else
Just saying
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,800
Lunges aren’t necessarily red though, only if they are "with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent".
Uncle Spielberg
Well-known member
The fact that 80% of posters do not think that is a red card is a bit worrying tbh
Kosh
'The' Yaztromo
It's a red card, an absolutely awful challenge ... when I saw it via the highlights, I was prepared for it and it still looks like what it is the behaviour of a player who is deeply frustrated with his own levels... yes he has momentum, but anyone who's played the game at any level can see he jumps into and uses force against Walton, where slight a twist would have meant less contact and a clear lack of intent. He needs to look in the mirror, otherwise he's going to lose it and get a hefty ban with it.
Strong man management required, not I suspect Fabs greatest strength... maybe there was a bit of criticism at HT, about the press and intensity and Pedro has gone out with a bit of an attitude problem...? "I'll show you an intense press..." Maybe not...
The phantom elbow and now this
Making Andone look like relatively less crazy... Not for me, not really wanting this kind of behavior from one of our players... He's showing a lack of intelligence in my book, which other teams and savvy coaches will look to exploit... silly boy.
I'm still smarting from the 'elbow' to be honest, if he'd made contact... Jesus, that would have been a HUGE ban and potential for GBH levels of assault.
Strong man management required, not I suspect Fabs greatest strength... maybe there was a bit of criticism at HT, about the press and intensity and Pedro has gone out with a bit of an attitude problem...? "I'll show you an intense press..." Maybe not...
The phantom elbow and now this
Making Andone look like relatively less crazy... Not for me, not really wanting this kind of behavior from one of our players... He's showing a lack of intelligence in my book, which other teams and savvy coaches will look to exploit... silly boy.I'm still smarting from the 'elbow' to be honest, if he'd made contact... Jesus, that would have been a HUGE ban and potential for GBH levels of assault.
Neither did the ref or VAR, I would suggest they are the ones who are correct
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
I’m pretty sure the poll will be a fair reflection on the thoughts of our entire fan base tbh.
Maybe I'm mis-reading the law but I read the endangering the safety in the same clause as a lunge. Is Pedro 'lunging' or is he trying to back out of a challenge to block the ball? If it's a separate thing it shouldn't really be in the same sentence and you could then make an argument that pretty much any physical challenge could endanger the safety of an opponent. Every competitive jump, every tackle, every competitive header.
So, I don't think Pedro has lunged, I think he's backed out. Has he endangered the safety of Walton by making the challenge? Arguably so, but that would mean a red every time there's a collision in an arial duel.
Excellent summary. Totally agree. He was trying to minimise any damage to himself as a result of an inevitable collision.
No way should it have been a red.