BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,592
You can add the whole Cambridge Analytica debacle into the mix too.
A disaster all round.
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[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?
- Thread starter Flounce
- Start date
A disaster all round.
Tubby Mondays
Well-known member
- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,867
- Thread starter
- #423
Feel much the sameI've sort of given up on Politics (bad person in a democracy) but it's just become an extension of many things in life where people just want someone/something to blame. For the last "x" number of new incumbent parliaments, the incoming party has inherited some kind of black hole in Public Finances - this is nothing new!
I do have a modicum of sympathy for the Tories - in the last few years global events have cost Countries all around the world money that they didn't have - Covid wasn't the Tories fault, nor was Putin's war on Ukraine, to name but two, but let's just play the blame game depending on which side you have chosen to sit. How the Tories handled Covid is a different matter, but at the end of the day, it cost us money that we didn't have.
Whether this latest Budget is going to be good for the Country long term, who knows, but I'm yet to read anything from experts outside of Parliament that short term is going to be other than more pain.
Regardless of who is in power, there is only so much money to go round. I've not voted in the last two General Elections, primarily because I don't believe any current Political Party can make a difference, and until proved otherwise, that's my prerogative
nicko31
Well-known member
His work really is outstanding
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Not really. I think even the staunchest Tory might concede it wasn't a great period of rule.
With only around 20% of the electorate actually voting Labour I find the poll results surprisingly optimistic.
I had the mistaken impression Labour may not be living up to the expectations of a fair proportion of their voters (as well as others)
They came into power saying that things were going to be very tough indeed and that they were going to have to take the sort of decisions a populist right wing leader would balk at.
They are dull. Their PR is appalling. But actually, they are carrying out one promise to the letter. Putting Country ahead of Party by taking difficult decisions and not being on the sort of personal ego trips that the likes of Cameron, Johnson and Truss were so fond of. By not setting your sails to align policy with the headlines of The Sun and Daily Mail and by actively pursuing measures to help the younger generations instead of the boomers is incredibly brave and let’s face it, needed.
I suspect that when the increased money comes through to areas such as the NHS, roads, rail and energy, we’ll see some opinions change. But it’s going to be at least 18 months before we see results. Meanwhile, their insistence on not spinning everything is leaving them profoundly vulnerable to negative polling. With an election just under 5 years away, they still have plenty of time to try and be popular but that particular mission seems to be in the bin for now as they take decision after decision that’s proving to be very unpopular (like they promised) whilst having an inability to get their successes anywhere near getting any meaningful airtime.
Room for improvement.
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armchairclubber
Well-known member
I take it you are one of the 28.8%
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 833
Well that’s just semantics and I don’t agree.
To say something could happen is to also say that it could not. Like saying the sun might come out tomorrow or it might not and that is having no opinion at all really.
I’m only giving my political opinions and I say what I personally think
This always happens. No one would be able to carry their groceries home with the plastic bag ban. Then there was the reusable coffee cup “what, I’m expected to carry a cup around with me all day?”
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Almost time for the 'free wi-fi for all' gimmick....a year before the election sound about right?
- Jul 10, 2003
- 28,090
Well that industrial revolution never took off did it. And the microchip. And what was all that getting rid of Serfdom about.
It's always those bloody kids inventing things, making social improvements and moving mankind forward
The systematic problems with the country (poor infrastructure, lack of investment from public and private sector, failing NHS and other public services, economic damage due to COVID, Ukraine and Brexit, ageing and obese population, lack of interest in educashun etc) are too big for anyone to turn around.
So instead we will continue to have identity politics, personally focussed self interested politicians and kicking problems down the road.
I didn’t vote for this government and think they’ve lost the popular/populist, if not the economic argument, which they seem to understand but it’s a horrendous situation they inherited.
So instead we will continue to have identity politics, personally focussed self interested politicians and kicking problems down the road.
I didn’t vote for this government and think they’ve lost the popular/populist, if not the economic argument, which they seem to understand but it’s a horrendous situation they inherited.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,337
I think people need to look outside of the UK bubble to get a better understanding of the forces at play here.
Across the world, Incumbent governments are finding it harder to stay in power, while there is a general lurch to the right. Indeed, the right have been winning the social media war for almost a decade, and the landslide win for Starmer was as much a backlash against the awful Tory government as it was an endorsement of Labour policies. The election came too soon for Farage but we can already see a Trump-like rise building up.
In general terms, the right are concerned with freedoms for the individual, whereas the left are concerned with society. Social media is by its nature messaging consumed by individuals, therefore there is a more direct route for the right to reinforce their message.
Important societal issues like environment, mental health, homelessness are hard to send viral for political gain, whereas immigration, wokeness, cancel culture, war are relatively easy to politicise and weaponise.
The right have also realised that truth is secondary to obtaining power and bringing down your opponents. We are now in an age when people are politically lazy and ill-informed, they find it harder to distinguish fact from fiction, the possible from the impossible. They live for the moment and do not care about how things might look in a decade. That's for governments to worry about" - except the governments we get are being elected because of the short-term fixes they offer, not for long-term strategy.
If Starmer was a true statesman he would recognise this, and while Reform number only 5 seats he should take the opportunity to reach out to the Opposition parties to establish a cross-party, long term strategy on matters such as the environment, and make it binding. These issues should be beyond party politics.
You can guarantee that Starmer will try his best to comply with net zero targets, but it will ultimately cost him his job because in the short-term it will be too expensive. The right will be all over oil, gas, fracking as cheaper alternatives. The real shame here is that Brexit has made the already hard job of reaching net zero virtually impossible because there are high transitional costs that Labour doesn't like to talk about.
Across the world, Incumbent governments are finding it harder to stay in power, while there is a general lurch to the right. Indeed, the right have been winning the social media war for almost a decade, and the landslide win for Starmer was as much a backlash against the awful Tory government as it was an endorsement of Labour policies. The election came too soon for Farage but we can already see a Trump-like rise building up.
In general terms, the right are concerned with freedoms for the individual, whereas the left are concerned with society. Social media is by its nature messaging consumed by individuals, therefore there is a more direct route for the right to reinforce their message.
Important societal issues like environment, mental health, homelessness are hard to send viral for political gain, whereas immigration, wokeness, cancel culture, war are relatively easy to politicise and weaponise.
The right have also realised that truth is secondary to obtaining power and bringing down your opponents. We are now in an age when people are politically lazy and ill-informed, they find it harder to distinguish fact from fiction, the possible from the impossible. They live for the moment and do not care about how things might look in a decade. That's for governments to worry about" - except the governments we get are being elected because of the short-term fixes they offer, not for long-term strategy.
If Starmer was a true statesman he would recognise this, and while Reform number only 5 seats he should take the opportunity to reach out to the Opposition parties to establish a cross-party, long term strategy on matters such as the environment, and make it binding. These issues should be beyond party politics.
You can guarantee that Starmer will try his best to comply with net zero targets, but it will ultimately cost him his job because in the short-term it will be too expensive. The right will be all over oil, gas, fracking as cheaper alternatives. The real shame here is that Brexit has made the already hard job of reaching net zero virtually impossible because there are high transitional costs that Labour doesn't like to talk about.
PWA
European Tour 2023/24
The worst start to a government since the 70s.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
His younger brother died yesterday.
Sir Keir Starmer pays tribute to brother Nick after death aged 60
Nick Starmer has died after being diagnosed with cancer.
www.bbc.co.uk
His younger brother died yesterday.
Sir Keir Starmer pays tribute to brother Nick after death aged 60
Nick Starmer has died after being diagnosed with cancer.www.bbc.co.uk
Very sad. The Telegraph had a nice article about the fella. Endearing story on how he made the best of himself, despite learning difficulties from birth. RIP.
Ike and Tina Burner
Well-known member
- Mar 22, 2019
- 651
I feel like this is slightly delusional and doesn't really reflect things that accurately. You are crediting them with making tough decisions and blaming that for their unpopularity but tough decisions are not an inherently good thing. The WFA, for example, is just a badly implemented/messaged policy that has made a decent chunk of pensioners permanently hate them with deep passion. See also Farmers with the inheritance tax.
Making bad tough descisions is not something that has any real merit.
There are different types of unpopularity and they are slipping torwards the visceral hatred category with many people rather than the grumbling populace category which would be the case if things were as you describe. They have burned bridges with some important groups and that won't be undone with any ease, even by freeing up money for services.
Also, I get the feeling that you think Labour are above using spin for moral reasons. I don't think that's the case. I think they're just really bad at it. Their failure to connect positively with people has been a thing since Free Gear took over from Corbyn and has simply persisted now they're actually in charge.
Tubby Mondays
Well-known member
And clutching at straws.