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[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?
- Thread starter Flounce
- Start date
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,096
If they don't, we're f***ed.
The economy
The boats
Law and Order
The 8 million adults in the benefit system
The NHS
He must wake up in a cold sweat almost every night and think, "Why did I ever win?"
The economy
The boats
Law and Order
The 8 million adults in the benefit system
The NHS
He must wake up in a cold sweat almost every night and think, "Why did I ever win?"
Yep, pretty much this, i bet he’s thinking why didn’t anyone tell me that being in opposition hurling shit at the government without fear of actual accountability was way more fun. The way this is all going this version of the PLP will be one term wonders ffs.
- Nov 15, 2006
- 4,706
- Thread starter
- #344
Yep Capt Hindsight no longer seems to have the foresight he suggested he had when in opposition
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,957
I can't help but see the funny side of watching you (and one or two others) constantly moaning on this thread, that the New Government haven't managed to reverse everything you've consistently campaigned and voted for, for the last 8 years, in a few months
It's been requested that they all get merged before, but the problem is
See if you can guess which is which is which
I can’t help see the funny side of your advice to me only a few days ago…..I can't help but see the funny side of watching you (and one or two others) constantly moaning on this thread, that the New Government haven't managed to reverse everything you've consistently campaigned and voted for, for the last 8 years, in a few months
It's been requested that they all get merged before, but the problem is
See if you can guess which is which is which
It’s almost like you’re doing an excited puppy every time I post, now run along and continue your prep on the inevitable bs 15 course Christmas day taster menu woof woof
tigertim68
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2012
- 2,686
You must be dreaming mate , this country started going downhill when Blair and his cronies were in government,
and this Labour government will make it even worse , most of the towns and cities are run by Labour and as you said most are a disaster zone , what this country needs is a proper change with neither Tory or Labour in power
Seconded, please @Bozza. Making a one-stop shop.
Initially it may’ve been hoped that one thread was for positive achievements (first 100 days type stuff), the other critiques and nsc rows.
In reality both are now essentially the same thing.
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Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,318
I've gone 'fence'. I think there are two issues that have contributed massively to this situation of statis. They go beyond party politics and desperately need addressing:
1. Economic black holes: Commentators on the left say the £22 billion black hole was the legacy left by the Tories, something they didn't know about. Tackling it has changed everything they planned to do in their first 6 months. However, commentators on the right either say the black hole doesn't exist, or it does but Labour have known about it for a long time. This just leaves voters confused and disillusioned.
2. Setting traps: It was apparent during the last General Election campaign that the Tories were hammering Labour that they would increase taxes, to the extent that Labour committed in their manifesto not to increase taxes "for working people" and so we get the shitshow of Winter Fuel Payments and Employer's NI hikes because Labour hands are tied on how they can pay for our current economic malaise.
For there to be ANY trust between politicians and the electorate there has to be full economic transparency so that all parties have access to accurate figures. Any changes to government policy, whether actual or in draft, must be costed at the outset and made available to all political parties.
On the second point, I cast my mind back to Rishi Sunak's manic series of machine gun accusations - 12 in total - that Starmer was going to put up taxes by £2,000 per household. This statement had not been costed properly, yet was the biggest takeaway of the first leadership debate. It may have been great politics by the Tories to set a trap but it is the height of irresponsibility from a national perspective.
Of course the biggest bind of all is that neither party know how to handle the elephant in the room, which is Brexit. The only leader whose hands are not tied on this issue is Reform, and I expect their support to grow in 2025, particularly as Farage will milk his 'friendship' with Trump for all it is worth.
I fear that no politician will be brave enough to tell it like it is, which is that Brexit has simply not delivered the 'Brexit Dividends', the 'Controlling Our Borders' benefits that were promised, and to change course. I don't see Starmer saying that, or anyone else in the Labour camp, and while the Lib Dems are likely to be the first main party to make 'ReJoin' party policy they will get a very tough ride.
It is hard to come to any other conclusion that the county is f*cked, so put on your tin hat and it's every man for himself.
1. Economic black holes: Commentators on the left say the £22 billion black hole was the legacy left by the Tories, something they didn't know about. Tackling it has changed everything they planned to do in their first 6 months. However, commentators on the right either say the black hole doesn't exist, or it does but Labour have known about it for a long time. This just leaves voters confused and disillusioned.
2. Setting traps: It was apparent during the last General Election campaign that the Tories were hammering Labour that they would increase taxes, to the extent that Labour committed in their manifesto not to increase taxes "for working people" and so we get the shitshow of Winter Fuel Payments and Employer's NI hikes because Labour hands are tied on how they can pay for our current economic malaise.
For there to be ANY trust between politicians and the electorate there has to be full economic transparency so that all parties have access to accurate figures. Any changes to government policy, whether actual or in draft, must be costed at the outset and made available to all political parties.
On the second point, I cast my mind back to Rishi Sunak's manic series of machine gun accusations - 12 in total - that Starmer was going to put up taxes by £2,000 per household. This statement had not been costed properly, yet was the biggest takeaway of the first leadership debate. It may have been great politics by the Tories to set a trap but it is the height of irresponsibility from a national perspective.
Of course the biggest bind of all is that neither party know how to handle the elephant in the room, which is Brexit. The only leader whose hands are not tied on this issue is Reform, and I expect their support to grow in 2025, particularly as Farage will milk his 'friendship' with Trump for all it is worth.
I fear that no politician will be brave enough to tell it like it is, which is that Brexit has simply not delivered the 'Brexit Dividends', the 'Controlling Our Borders' benefits that were promised, and to change course. I don't see Starmer saying that, or anyone else in the Labour camp, and while the Lib Dems are likely to be the first main party to make 'ReJoin' party policy they will get a very tough ride.
It is hard to come to any other conclusion that the county is f*cked, so put on your tin hat and it's every man for himself.
Funny you should say that about (1). The excellent R4 prog More Or Less examined the £22b blackhole claim, concluding it wasn’t. It was a combination of; items fully known to all pre GE, the post GE wage awards and some unknowns.
Rarely are these things black n white.
Or indeed actually Party Politics which would be iirc the second time @Pavilionaire has tried to stray from Party Political stuff but its front centre stage in his post
This is a revision of the Q3 figures so pre-budget, so the Tory plans were clearly working a treat
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
I KNEW it wasn't the fault of Reeves or any other of this awful cabal.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-in-uk-business-activity-forecast-cbi-economy
Businesses are trying to cushion the blow from Rachel Reeves’ decision in her October budget to raise £25bn by raising employers’ national insurance contributions (NICs).
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dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,687
Quoting from the article, not from PotG's post:
[Edit] it#s the National Insurance allowance - employers can waive their first £11k of employer's NIC payments, rather than just £5k at present. so if they have about 6 or fewer employees at minimum wage, they'll be no worse off. It's when they fancy employing a seventh that the extra bill hits.
How can this be true? The NIC rate has gone up and the threshhold at which it kicks in has gone down. Is there any way (other than laying off staff) that employers' National Insurance bills can drop?
[Edit] it#s the National Insurance allowance - employers can waive their first £11k of employer's NIC payments, rather than just £5k at present. so if they have about 6 or fewer employees at minimum wage, they'll be no worse off. It's when they fancy employing a seventh that the extra bill hits.
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Cheshire Cat
The most curious thing..
Labour just isn't very good at politics.
The Conservatives are not good at anything.
Reform are very good at creating a shitstorm, but nothing else.
The LibDems are quite good at publicity stunts.
There is a story somewhere about Starmer in his days as a prosecutor. If he argued a case in front of a judge, he would invariably win because his reasoning and logic was very good. If he argued a case in front of a jury, he would invariably lose because his empathy and charisma was very poor.
The Conservatives are not good at anything.
Reform are very good at creating a shitstorm, but nothing else.
The LibDems are quite good at publicity stunts.
There is a story somewhere about Starmer in his days as a prosecutor. If he argued a case in front of a judge, he would invariably win because his reasoning and logic was very good. If he argued a case in front of a jury, he would invariably lose because his empathy and charisma was very poor.
These businesses were happy to take the furlough money during covid. That and the rest of the money Rishy spaffed during that time has gotta be paid back somehow.
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Ask Ukraine for it back then.
