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[News] Horror at German Market



Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Now, but in the past their threat was very high.

But thank you for highlighting my "desperation" about the IRA, one day we may meet and tell you what I personally experienced.

I try to draw parallels from experience. The threat now is clearly from radical Islam, but in the past is from something quite different.

We can always learn from the past.
People are either too young or don’t remember the 20 years of bombs in pubs, stations or shopping centres. Look at the rubbish containers on any station, you’ll see a clear plastic bag. Bombs were put into cast iron rubbish bins which turned into shrapnel when it exploded.
We had to carry on life as normal or else the terror won.
 




Ike and Tina Burner

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2019
644
Not sure what you mean by the "elephant in room",
Mass, uncontrolled immigration has allowed thousands upon thousands of Muslims into Europe who should be nowhere near liberal democracies because of the extremist views they hold or have developed. They should have been denied entry by strict screening procedures and entry requirements that don't currently exist or work. Furthermore, our reluctance to deport or properly punish extremists has allowed extremism to thrive. We now live in constant fear of Islamic terrorist attacks and it's a major part of all public event planning. That's the Elephant.
but if I think it's what you mean it's not going to deal with lone wolf individuals radicalised, often by what they read on the internet unfortunately.
There are very few truly lone wolf Islamist attacks. The worst ones certainly aren't. Extremist interpretations of Islam and the threat they pose cannot be surmised as "what people read on the Internet".
The cat is out the bag on that one.

That applies to both radical interpreters of religion, neo Nazis like the London nail bomber or whatever drives a lunatic to shoot up a school in America.
Anyone equating Islamic terrorism and extremism in Europe to any other contemporary group is being intellectually dishonest about the problem and should be ignored.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat


Zebedee

Anyone seen Florence?
Jul 8, 2003
8,058
Hangleton
Sadly, the countries of Western Europe only have themselves to blame for today's abhorrent act. It is only going to get worse in the months and years ahead and I fear that it is now too late to do anything about it. I am so very glad that I won't be around to experience life in UK, or indeed any of the major countries in Western Europe, in 40-50 years time. I don't think Sharia law is too far around the corner in the UK although it truly pains me to say so.
 


birthofanorange

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2011
6,576
David Gilmour's armpit
Sadly, the countries of Western Europe only have themselves to blame for today's abhorrent act. It is only going to get worse in the months and years ahead and I fear that it is now too late to do anything about it. I am so very glad that I won't be around to experience life in UK, or indeed any of the major countries in Western Europe, in 40-50 years time. I don't think Sharia law is too far around the corner in the UK although it truly pains me to say so.
I blame the perpetrator/s, nobody else.
 




clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,968
Mass, uncontrolled immigration has allowed thousands upon thousands of Muslims into Europe who should be nowhere near liberal democracies because of the extremist views they hold or have developed. They should have been denied entry by strict screening procedures and entry requirements that don't currently exist or work. Furthermore, our reluctance to deport or properly punish extremists has allowed extremism to thrive. We now live in constant fear of Islamic terrorist attacks and it's a major part of all public event planning. That's the Elephant.

There are very few truly lone wolf Islamist attacks. The worst ones certainly aren't. Extremist interpretations of Islam and the threat they pose cannot be surmised as "what people read on the Internet".

Anyone equating Islamic terrorism and extremism in Europe to any other contemporary group is being intellectually dishonest about the problem and should be ignored.

Well at least we know where you stand.

Just some points I need to correct.

Extremist interpretations of Islam and the threat they pose cannot be surmised as "what people read on the Internet".

I never said that, in fact organised groups are far easier now to infiltrate. I was making the point (that others have) is that lone wolf individuals (if he is one) are quite difficult to detect. I used some other examples.

Anyone equating Islamic terrorism and extremism in Europe to any other contemporary group is being intellectually dishonest about the problem and should be ignored.

I didn't. In fact I was was drawing attention to our reaction in this country to previous terrorists threats. We didn't for instance ask for all the Irish Catholics to go home. It's counter productive and simply doesn't work. Anyone can be radicalised with the age of "freedom of information" whether they were born in a country or not.

My personal experience is from being from a failed detonator away from being blown away in the 90s. I also experienced the reaction to that locally. How the community came together and (after a few incidents) was clear that the actions of a minority were not to be blamed on the majority. The security services need their help, trust and intelligence.

We can learn from the past.
 


Invicta

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 1, 2013
3,392
Kent
Horrific that people target these events. They are so much loved in Germany and Central Europe and so family and friend oriented. Thoughts to all those impacted tonight .
 


Zebedee

Anyone seen Florence?
Jul 8, 2003
8,058
Hangleton
Horrific that people target these events. They are so much loved in Germany and Central Europe and so family and friend oriented. Thoughts to all those impacted tonight .
And it's because they are so loved by the West that they are targetted by those who share none of our culture or values. Toleration rarely seems to work both ways.
 




Hiheidi

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2022
1,917
We didn't for instance ask for all the Irish Catholics to go home. It's counter productive and simply doesn't work. Anyone can be radicalised with the age of "freedom of information" whether they were born in a country or not.

My personal experience is from being from a failed detonator away from being blown away in the 90s. I also experienced the reaction to that locally. How the community came together and (after a few incidents) was clear that the actions of a minority were not to be blamed on the majority. The security services need their help, trust and intelligence.

We can learn from the past.

But we knew what the IRA wanted - an end to British rule. What do the Islamic extremities want? What is their end goal?
 
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Zebedee

Anyone seen Florence?
Jul 8, 2003
8,058
Hangleton
But we knew what the IRA wanted - and end to British rule. What do the Islamic extremities want? What is their end goal?
I think we all know the answer to that; and they are well on their way to achieving their aim.
 






Zebedee

Anyone seen Florence?
Jul 8, 2003
8,058
Hangleton
No, 'we' don't and no 'they' aren't. Spell it out.
Forgive me for saying so, but it's that sort of head in the sand liberalism that got us where we are now. I don't intend to debate this matter but if you really believe that all is well in Western Europe, I fear you are very much mistaken.
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,968
But we knew what the IRA wanted - and end to British rule. What do the Islamic extremities want? What is their end goal?
Fair observation, but my point is about the reaction and "solutions" offered above.

This individual appears to have been living in Germany for 20 years.

This is potentially not so much about immigration but radicalisation in the modern age. We can ban as many immigrants as we wish, but it doesn't stop Westerners being targeted abroad as we have seen.

If we banned all immigration tomorrow, I'm failing to see how we are less of a target unless we all agree not to leave our country of origin as well.
 
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birthofanorange

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2011
6,576
David Gilmour's armpit
Forgive me for saying so, but it's that sort of head in the sand liberalism that got us where we are now. I don't intend to debate this matter but if you really believe that all is well in Western Europe, I fear you are very much mistaken.
I fear that you are very much mistaken if you think that demonising an entire religion for the actions of extremists (although that may/may not even be the case in this incident) is the way forward.
 




clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,968
I fear that you are very much mistaken if you think that demonising an entire religion for the actions of extremists (although that may/may not even be the case in this incident) is the way forward.
The very conversation I had with a particularly forthright pro Palestine protestor who approached me to sign a petition in a city centre this year, prompted by something she said. I then get labelled a Zionist apologist or something, which I'm clearly not.

As a society I think our reaction to extremism has regressed, which is a very odd statement to read (let alone write) but I stand by it.

When everyone's views theses days are so fractured, (on a global scale) I'm not sure those who lump people together in groups have really read the room.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,443
Gloucester
If we can live a good life among all that, contribute to the greater good, or at lease raise a good family, or a good nexus of those we have influenced, that's the best we can do. And so be it.

:thumbsup:
Yes, and not to say a bad word about scum who want to prevent us doing just that, because we'd then be identified (at least on NSC) as racist, homophobes, little Englanders. xenophobes, Tommy Robinson supporters, etc.
By NSC's finest, at least. No apologies - there are some nutters on here, I realise.


I calmly await my demonisation by the tolerant left.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
49,443
Gloucester
Forgive me for saying so, but it's that sort of head in the sand liberalism that got us where we are now. I don't intend to debate this matter but if you really believe that all is well in Western Europe, I fear you are very much mistaken.
Yes, Islam is just dandy for the middle east, if that's what they want.



So leave it there.
 


birthofanorange

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 31, 2011
6,576
David Gilmour's armpit
Yes, and not to say a bad word about scum who want to prevent us doing just that, because we'd then be identified (at least on NSC) as racist, homophobes, little Englanders. xenophobes, Tommy Robinson supporters, etc.
By NSC's finest, at least. No apologies - there are some nutters on here, I realise.


I calmly await my demonisation by the tolerant left.
By 'scum', I assume you are only referring to the person/s who carry out such atrocities, rather than (as said above) 'lumping them all together'?
 








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