[News] Horror at German Market

[birthofanorange]

I'm not sure you can leave a religion anywhere can you ?

Indeed, and we British folk have a bit of a history of spreading our beliefs around the world, and not very often in a 'good way'.

 

[cunning fergus]

Indeed, and we British folk have a bit of a history of spreading our beliefs around the world, and not very often in a 'good way'.

Let’s say that’s true, what are the beliefs of British folk and even wider European folk these days?

Tolerance, secularism, diversity, inclusion etc.

These attacks are not targeting congregations leaving churches, but attendees of pop concerts, pubs, open air markets at Christmas. Folk that have in historical terms never been more liberal.

The attacks are directed against these contemporary values, not what our forebears were responsible for. The reservoir for those values diminishes with every one of these attacks……….these terrorists are not stupid, they want something.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Indeed, and we British folk have a bit of a history of spreading our beliefs around the world, and not very often in a 'good way'.

Which is ironic because we imported a Middle Eastern religion and then rebranded it our own (as did much of Europe).

Perhaps we need something to reset the world in terms of religious views that seem to be so divisive. I think humanity needs a tap on the shoulder.

 

[birthofanorange]

Let’s say that’s true, what are the beliefs of British folk and even wider European folk these days?

Tolerance, secularism, diversity, inclusion etc.

These attacks are not targeting congregations leaving churches, but attendees of pop concerts, pubs, open air markets at Christmas. Folk that have in historical terms never been more liberal.

The attacks are directed against these contemporary values, not what our forebears were responsible for. The reservoir for those values diminishes with every one of these attacks……….these terrorists are not stupid, they want something.

It seems to me that the current extremists simply go for the 'easy' targets, as they really don't have the weight of their whole culture behind them.
Our forebears (as you call them) had the full force of our people behind them and tried (and in many cases succeeded) to shape many cultures/countries in our image.
These current attacks are not necessarily born from that cultural 'want', but from those relative few who do.
Are you, or anybody else, really suggesting that we should be in fear of all the (vast majority) of peaceful Muslims - insert religion of choice - who, like us, simply go about their business on a daily basis?
Not for me Clive.
I despise extremists of any creed or colour - the majority live quite happily side by side, and long may that be the case.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

Take it with a pinch of salt but he seemingly had a twitter account and was a Doctor and former Muslim turned Muslim hater and AFD supporter. He also criticised the German government for it's poor treatment of Middle Eastern refugees. His motivation is therefore confused at best. Seemingly he was a wanted Terrorist in Saudi but Germany refused to extradite him. All seems utterly bizarre.

The truth in this case is probably more complex than I first assumed and I'll acknowledge that. I'm no more a fan of right wing extremism than I am of Islamic and it's horrorfying that it's reaching a point where someone would do this. My opinion is still the same generally and I won't apologise for it, this right wing insanity has thrived because of our failure to address the other form. But they are equally evil and we need to tackle both.

 

[jackalbion]

Take it with a pinch of salt but he seemingly had a twitter account and was a Doctor and former Muslim turned Muslim hater and AFD supporter. He also criticised the German government for it's poor treatment of Middle Eastern refugees. His motivation is therefore confused at best. Seemingly he was a wanted Terrorist in Saudi but Germany refused to extradite him. All seems utterly bizarre.

The truth in this case is probably more complex than I first assumed and I'll acknowledge that. I'm no more a fan of right wing extremism than I am of Islamic and it's horrorfying that it's reaching a point where someone would do this. My opinion is still the same generally and I won't apologise for it, this right wing insanity has thrived because of our failure to address the other form. But they are equally evil and we need to tackle both.

I think what people need to acknowledge is that people on every view point are becoming more and more extreme. People are frustrated with an economy which makes them more and more isolated and head towards extremes. People are driven to bizarre places like Telegram where unvetted insanity takes place. People want to be noticed in this world, and become incredibly frustrated at their situation, do insane things. It doesn’t just manifest its self in terror attacks, people in every walk of life are just more and unpleasant to each other.

 

[birthofanorange]

I think what people need to acknowledge is that people on every view point are becoming more and more extreme. People are frustrated with an economy which makes them more and more isolated and head towards extremes. People are driven to bizarre places like Telegram where unvetted insanity takes place. People want to be noticed in this world, and become incredibly frustrated at their situation, do insane things. It doesn’t just manifest its self in terror attacks, people in every walk of life are just more and unpleasant to each other.

I agree, but I truly believe that it's the double-edged sword of social media that causes the majority of it. Throughout history people have struggled economically, but they mostly girded their loins and got on with things.
Now, the same folk are bombarded with foolishness and unwarranted success/riches by an endless amount of 'nobodies' on their phones/laptops/tv.
Envy is never a good look, but it drives people to do crazy things.
Edit: And what the hell is 'Telegram'?

 

[GT49er]

Sadly, the countries of Western Europe only have themselves to blame for today's abhorrent act. It is only going to get worse in the months and years ahead and I fear that it is now too late to do anything about it. I am so very glad that I won't be around to experience life in UK, or indeed any of the major countries in Western Europe, in 40-50 years time. I don't think Sharia law is too far around the corner in the UK although it truly pains me to say so.

Sadly, you are right - apart from your first sentence, which is utter bull-shit. Western countries do not have themselves to blame for not accepting an archaic religion which has so many unacceptable practices and beliefs among its extremist believers.

 

[The Clamp]

Motherfucker.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Going on about the IRA is bit desperate
There threat is very low
The other is extremely high

extremely high?
that kind of thinking is exactly what the terrorists want.
The threat is nowhere near as high as the reaction to isolated events.

Here is a table of deaths from all terrorism between 1970 - 2021 in the UK

The modern world allows each terrorist act to be amplified through social media.
The impact of a lone nutter driving through a crowd of people is a million times greater than it would have been 50 years ago.

Take away social media and the internet, and the world would be a much safer place.
It's a far bigger cause of threats to our security than Islamists.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I think what people need to acknowledge is that people on every view point are becoming more and more extreme. People are frustrated with an economy which makes them more and more isolated and head towards extremes. People are driven to bizarre places like Telegram where unvetted insanity takes place. People want to be noticed in this world, and become incredibly frustrated at their situation, do insane things. It doesn’t just manifest its self in terror attacks, people in every walk of life are just more and unpleasant to each other.

Yeah this.

I'm a dyed in the wool leftie, I see the way everything is going, as the ruling classes controlling us through money and fear of each other
Many people with opposite views see the problem as immigration and radical islamists.

The truth is that as a species we are just not developing very well.
Our society no longer exists to make our lives better and safer, and hasn't done for decades, possibly centuries.
We are all part of the problem.

Looking for one enemy to victimise and "solve the problem" , whether that be immigrants, religions or governments, isn't going to change anything.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Take it with a pinch of salt but he seemingly had a twitter account and was a Doctor and former Muslim turned Muslim hater and AFD supporter. He also criticised the German government for it's poor treatment of Middle Eastern refugees. His motivation is therefore confused at best. Seemingly he was a wanted Terrorist in Saudi but Germany refused to extradite him. All seems utterly bizarre.

The truth in this case is probably more complex than I first assumed and I'll acknowledge that. I'm no more a fan of right wing extremism than I am of Islamic and it's horrorfying that it's reaching a point where someone would do this. My opinion is still the same generally and I won't apologise for it, this right wing insanity has thrived because of our failure to address the other form. But they are equally evil and we need to tackle both.

Clearly the internet doesn’t help. I read your first couple of posts on here and disagreed. I agree with this very much. Clearly many of us have nuance but it’s very hard to show in a single opinion on a single topic. This reductionism only helps extremism.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Looking at the reports, this seems to have less to do with Islam and more to do with the requisite type of character needed to perform this sort of atrocity.

It seems that his is just a nasty, mad c***. I hope he rots in prison and then metaphorically hell.

“As BILD learned, Taleb A. is not said to have been known or conspicuous as an Islamist. In an interview with the “Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung” he even criticized Islam in 2019. “I am the most aggressive critic of Islam in history,” he said there. He turned away from Islam. Taleb A.: “That's why I was threatened: they wanted to 'slaughter' me if I returned to Saudi Arabia. So I decided to apply for asylum in Germany. It wouldn't have made sense to expose yourself to the risk of having to return and then be killed." A. also claims to have founded an internet platform that helps Saudi Arabian women apply for asylum in Germany.”

 

[Chicken Run]

But we knew what the IRA wanted - an end to British rule. What do the Islamic extremities want? What is their end goal?

Some would say world domination!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

extremely high?
that kind of thinking is exactly what the terrorists want.
The threat is nowhere near as high as the reaction to isolated events.

Here is a table of deaths from all terrorism between 1970 - 2021 in the UK

View attachment 193989

The modern world allows each terrorist act to be amplified through social media.


Take away social media and the internet, and the world would be a much safer place.
It's a far bigger cause of threats to our security than Islamists.

Several of us mentioned terror threats from the 70s to the 90s which was dismissed. Your graph shows our memory was correct.

This is a typical example of using social media for confirmation bias.

 

[Berty23]

Several of us mentioned terror threats from the 70s to the 90s which was dismissed. Your graph shows our memory was correct.

This is a typical example of using social media for confirmation bias.

View attachment 193990

My dad was in the navy. As a little kid I remember being curious why he could not travel to work at devonport dockyard in uniform. He was explained it was because it was in case he was identified by the IRA. Not great memories.

In fact one of my earliest memories was going to visit my gran in Brighton and seeing the grand hotel.

Several of us mentioned terror threats from the 70s to the 90s which was dismissed. Your graph shows our memory was correct.

This is a typical example of using social media for confirmation bias.

View attachment 193990

My dad was in the navy. As a little kid I remember being curious why he could not travel to work at devonport dockyard in uniform. He was explained it was because it was in case he was identified by the IRA. Not great memories.

In fact one of my earliest memories was going to visit my gran in Brighton and seeing the grand hotel. I was born 79 so I must have been about 5.

 

[Berty23]

It is now being widely reported that he was a right wing, Elon musk, Tommy Robinson fan who has been radicalised. I assume that his skin colour will mean this is why we need more right wing people in charge.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It seems to me that the current extremists simply go for the 'easy' targets, as they really don't have the weight of their whole culture behind them.
Our forebears (as you call them) had the full force of our people behind them and tried (and in many cases succeeded) to shape many cultures/countries in our image.
These current attacks are not necessarily born from that cultural 'want', but from those relative few who do.
Are you, or anybody else, really suggesting that we should be in fear of all the (vast majority) of peaceful Muslims - insert religion of choice - who, like us, simply go about their business on a daily basis?
Not for me Clive.
I despise extremists of any creed or colour - the majority live quite happily side by side, and long may that be the case.

I agree.

To add, toxic masculinity, 'Incel' mentality, low intelligence . . . . .one in ten thousand like that turn into nutters who kill and, usually, are killed themselves. As you say, nothing whatsoever to do with the actual religion itself, or the majority who follow it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree.

To add, toxic masculinity, 'Incel' mentality, low intelligence . . . . .one in ten thousand like that turn into nutters who kill and, usually, are killed themselves. As you say, nothing whatsoever to do with the actual religion itself, or the majority who follow it.

This Saudi doctor was an atheist, anti religion.

 

[Hiheidi]

People are sharing his pro-Hamas Tweets on social media, which seems at odds with the anti Islam rhetoric. Let's just wait and see what the story is.