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[Albion] No Veltman, no party



SkirlieWirlie

SkirlieWirlie

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2024
196
AZ Gull said:
This thread is a little bit bizarre - it's the classic example of a non-playing footballer going up in the estimation of fans when they miss out on a bad result or performance by the team.

You have highlighted the fact that Albion have now drawn two games this season, having led 2-0 late in the match - well, guess what, Veltman was on the pitch for the entire 90 minutes in that Wolves game.

Our issues today weren't at right-back, and we almost certainly wouldn't have scored our first goal with Veltman on the pitch (instead of Lamptey).
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Can't throw up any specific stats to support, but my own perception watching most games home and away for several years now is that we are poorer defensively without him.

Immediately feel nervous about any game when he's not playing and even more so if not at least on the bench.
 
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AZ Gull

AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy @seagullsacademy.bsky.social
Oct 14, 2003
13,180
Chandler, AZ
Guinness Boy said:
We’ve conceded six goals in the three games he’s missed and it should have been seven. At Fulham we basically played with no right back at all.
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So when Veltman is on the pitch it isn't his fault we concede goals, but when he isn't on the pitch all goals conceded are because he is missing. Got it.
 




Guinness Boy

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AZ Gull said:
So when Veltman is on the pitch it isn't his fault we concede goals, but when he isn't on the pitch all goals conceded are because he is missing. Got it.
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Well he also missed the four goals we conceded at Chelsea so there’s certainly a pattern but not the ridiculous straw man one you’ve come up with.
 






The Wookiee

The Wookiee

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Nov 10, 2003
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Veltman played 90 minutes in our 2-2 draw with Forest
He played 90 minutes in our 2-2 draw with wolves
He played 86 minutes in our 0-0 draw with Ipswich

Whilst I agree he has been a big influence in the games we have won, he has still been involved in games we should have won but didn’t
 


AZ Gull

AZ Gull

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Oct 14, 2003
13,180
Chandler, AZ
Guinness Boy said:
Well he also missed the four goals we conceded at Chelsea so there’s certainly a pattern but not the ridiculous straw man one you’ve come up with.
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YOU are the one who creates a thread, moments after we give up two late goals in a match, claiming that without Veltman we can't defend.

I find it strange and bizarre that you come to that conclusion given that just six weeks ago we gave up two late goals in a match with ..... Veltman on the pitch the entire time.

:shrug:
 


Guinness Boy

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AZ Gull said:
YOU are the one who creates a thread, moments after we give up two late goals in a match, claiming that without Veltman we can't defend.

I find it strange and bizarre that you come to that conclusion given that just six weeks ago we gave up two late goals in a match with ..... Veltman on the pitch the entire time.

:shrug:
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No I created a thread pointing out our defence has been shocking in the last three games without Veltman.
 




Zeberdi

Zeberdi

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Oct 20, 2022
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chickens said:
Kadioglu, Veltman, Hinshelwood, Lamptey.

Yes, three of them are injured, but I thought Tariq had a good game today.

We capitulated. For me, this is a psychological frailty, not a physical one. Our squad is not the problem here, it’s our headless chicken reaction to a late goal against us that made the second goal inevitable.

Neither Dunk nor the management seemed able to calm nerves and point out that if we played like we had for the first 85 minutes, we’d win the game. Instead we went all out for a lockdown, which (to my mind) always triggers the opposite.

Hopefully a lesson learned today.
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But that’s not what we are discussing on this thread is it? I have already commented on these issues on the main Hürzeler thread and match thread and already said there is a psychological aspect to dropping 2 points in injury time and that there was bad game management. That is TWICE now.

The point for me is that Veltman is by far the best RB we have (who has the best communication skills with those around him incidently than any other RB option - except maybe Jack) and without him we struggle in defence when we need to defend - it’s not just Kadioglu, Webster and Jack being out - his absence wasn’t so much noticed when we were pressing for most of the match and had Leics on the back foot but when we sat back on two goals at 90 mins, we were rabbits in the headlights because, shock of shock, Leicester scored.

Anyway just repeating what I’ve said elsewhere and before today.

FYI - Imo what triggered the spur up the backside for Leicester was a wrong call by the ref before their first goal - Leicester should have been given a corner when VH blocked Vardy - VH was the last to touch the ball - instead we had the goal kick. After that Leicester were incensed and energised into attacking us in a way they hadn’t for most of the game.
 
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The Wookiee

The Wookiee

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Zeberdi said:
But that’s not what we are discussing on this thread is it? I have already commented on these issues on the main Hürzeler thread and match thread and already said there is a psychological aspect to dropping 2 points in injury time and that there was bad game management. That is TWICE now.

The point for me is that Veltman is by far the best RB we have (who has the best communication skills with those around him incidently than any other RB option - except maybe Jack) and without him we struggle in defence when we need to defend - it’s not just Kadioglu, Webster and Jack being out - his absence wasn’t so much noticed when we were pressing for most of the match and had Leics on the back foot but when we sat back on two goals at 90 mins, we were rabbits in the headlights because, shock of shock, Leicester scored.

Anyway just repeating what I’ve said elsewhere and before today.

FYI - Imo what triggered the spur up the backside for Leicester was a wrong call by the ref before their first goal - Leicester should have been given a corner when VH blocked Vardy - VH was the last to touch the ball - instead we had the goal kick. After that Leicester were incensed and energised into attacking us in a way they hadn’t for most of the game.
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But Veltman was on the pitch when we capitulated against Wolves ??
 








The Wookiee

The Wookiee

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Weststander said:
And a starter in these results with quality defending:
Everton W
ManU W
Arsenal D
Newcastle W
Bmuff W
ManC W

I omitted Spurs W because first half he/we were awful.
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You missed my previous post when I said he has been their for us in the games we haven’t lost - but to blame his absence on our inability to kill games off is way off the mark when he has been involved in 3 games against struggling teams we should have won
 








Weststander

Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
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The Wookiee said:
You missed my previous post when I said he has been their for us in the games we haven’t lost - but to blame his absence on our inability to kill games off is way off the mark when he has been involved in 3 games against struggling teams we should have won
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We’re not perfect defensively with him, but we were able to see out those wins. His starter win % must be better, than when he’s absent.

When people say here he’d be favoured by JPVH over Lamptey, it more or less goes unchallenged. He’s a remarkable player.
 


AZ Gull

AZ Gull

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Oct 14, 2003
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Chandler, AZ
To be clear - I'm not sure ANYONE would claim that Lamptey is a better defender than Veltman (and I certainly wouldn't).

But Veltman has definitely had some poor moments this season, and I also don't think there is much doubt that Lamptey offers a lot more going forward than Joel does. I don't think it's nailed on that we win today's game if Veltman starts instead of Tariq.
 


chickens

chickens

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Oct 12, 2022
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Zeberdi said:
But that’s not what we are discussing on this thread is it? I have already commented on these issues on the main Hürzeler thread and match thread and already said there is a psychological aspect to dropping 2 points in injury time and that there was bad game management. That is TWICE now.

The point for me is that Veltman is by far the best RB we have (who has the best communication skills with those around him incidently than any other RB option - except maybe Jack) and without him we struggle in defence when we need to defend - it’s not just Kadioglu, Webster and Jack being out - his absence wasn’t so much noticed when we were pressing for most of the match and had Leics on the back foot but when we sat back on two goals at 90 mins, we were rabbits in the headlights because, shock of shock, Leicester scored.

Anyway just repeating what I’ve said elsewhere and before today.

FYI - Imo what triggered the spur up the backside for Leicester was a wrong call by the ref before their first goal - Leicester should have been given a corner when VH blocked Vardy - VH was the last to touch the ball - instead we had the goal kick. After that Leicester were incensed and energised into attacking us in a way they hadn’t for most of the game.
Click to expand...

I was mainly picking up on your “one and a half right backs” point. We have four.

And there’s no way the ref was to blame either. Veltman’s great, but the result today would be no different if he were on the pitch. We have to stop coaching fear of mistakes into our players, and not allow ourselves to be bullied out of our game plan. If we stuck to our original style, tempo and patterns, we win that game.
 




macbeth

macbeth

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Jan 3, 2018
4,237
six feet beneath the moon
aware i’m risking substantial ire here, as criticising dunk is sacrilegious, but if we’re talking about headless chicken reactions and the rest of the team not being able to deal with game management when veltman is out, where is the man who is actually our captain in all of this? why is it veltman’s job to marshall the defence and make sure everyone keeps cool heads? shouldn’t that be the captain’s?
 


B

Brian Munich

teH lulZ
Jul 7, 2008
315
Veltman is a very good player and defensively our best RB option. He’s not a silver bullet though.

I’m probably in a minority, but I reckon that for a combination of attack and defense, Hinshelwood’s run in the team last winter was the best we’ve had in that position.
 


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