[Albion] No Veltman, no party

[chickens]

aware i’m risking substantial ire here, as criticising dunk is sacrilegious, but if we’re talking about headless chicken reactions and the rest of the team not being able to deal with game management when veltman is out, where is the man who is actually our captain in all of this? why is it veltman’s job to marshall the defence and make sure everyone keeps cool heads? shouldn’t that be the captain’s?

We’re drifting off topic, but yes. What I’m looking for from my captain and the coaching staff is clear “stay calm, keep playing our game” messaging. I may have missed it, but I didn’t feel that was delivered. We panicked.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

We’re drifting off topic, but yes. What I’m looking for from my captain and the coaching staff is clear “stay calm, keep playing our game” messaging. I may have missed it, but I didn’t feel that was delivered. We panicked.

Did we?

I‘d argue that we threw away two points because Igor DIDN‘T panic - rather he was complacent / cocky.

 

[chickens]

Did we?

I‘d argue that we threw away two points because Igor DIDN‘T panic - rather he was complacent / cocky.

Yes. The fact that Igor was on the pitch was a clear signal (visible to all) that the management had panicked. FH didn’t trust the team to see the game out, despite us largely controlling the match throughout. That panic then spreads through the rest of the team who aren’t being provided with reassurance/encouragement that they just need to keep playing. Into that void, doubt creeps.

Igor isn’t to blame, he’s only just come on and made a heavy touch, as can happen when you first come into a game.

Fair enough Mitoma was knackered. Stick one of our endless supply of wingers on. They don’t need to score, just be someone that the ball can be passed to who can carry it up the pitch.

We panicked. Igor was put on in a no win situation, coming in cold and trying to find his touch when we’d abandoned all thought of playing the football that had given us a 2-0 lead.

The mistake here was not providing the reassurance to the team that despite conceding once, we should keep playing. Instead we signalled our lack of faith in our formation, play and the players who’d won us that match, and in doing so we gave Leicester everything they needed.

 

[mothy]

Three horrific games at the back. Three games without JV. Not a coincidence IMO. We need his leadership and housery. Let’s hope he’s back for Palace. Without him we can’t defend.

& yet someone I know still moans about him & says he isn't good enough

 

[oldboyroy]

We’re drifting off topic, but yes. What I’m looking for from my captain and the coaching staff is clear “stay calm, keep playing our game” messaging. I may have missed it, but I didn’t feel that was delivered. We panicked.

Bit like Lallana did when on the pitch. He was good at geeing up the players in adversity.

 

[Is it PotG?]

& yet someone I know still moans about him & says he isn't good enough

Same happened with Stephens iirc.

 

[Vicar!]

We’ve now done this TWICE and in both cases we conceded soft first goals to let the opposition in. I don’t think we should have won this and Wolves 2-1. We should have won both 2-0.

And you’re ignoring the two previous games where Bart was at fault for one goal (from a poor Igor pass admittedly), couldn’t defend a corner, let Alex effing Iwobi dribble through us and looked like a League One defence against Southampton.

Very close to losing a second goal at Bournemouth. It could have been x3

 

[oldboyroy]

Very close to losing a second goal at Bournemouth. It could have been x3

Saved by the bar weren't we although we were down to 10 and up against it!

 

[aolstudios]

Agree. One of my favourite players, and for a reason.

More often than not we lose without him in the team. Knows instinctively how to defend , but also to help the players around him.

Always nervous when he's not in the team.

May be controversial, but far more so than any other defender these days.

Spot on. He's the glue that keeps the defence together & calm, & it transmits forward. Worryingly we're chaotic without him.
Every single time

 

[Bodian]

Regardless of defending - Veltman would have 'won' a few free-kicks out of nothing in the last few minutes - which would have given the ball back to us and wasted a bit of time, dampening their momentum.

 

[aolstudios]

Him not being there snd subsequent results shows how little leadership and experience exists in the team.

Spot on.
I think his & Danny's experience at a higher level brings something to the team it's impossible to replicate. I'm sure Milner's acquisition was meant to provide the same.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Yes. The fact that Igor was on the pitch was a clear signal (visible to all) that the management had panicked. FH didn’t trust the team to see the game out, despite us largely controlling the match throughout. That panic then spreads through the rest of the team who aren’t being provided with reassurance/encouragement that they just need to keep playing. Into that void, doubt creeps.

Igor isn’t to blame, he’s only just come on and made a heavy touch, as can happen when you first come into a game.

Fair enough Mitoma was knackered. Stick one of our endless supply of wingers on. They don’t need to score, just be someone that the ball can be passed to who can carry it up the pitch.

We panicked. Igor was put on in a no win situation, coming in cold and trying to find his touch when we’d abandoned all thought of playing the football that had given us a 2-0 lead.

The mistake here was not providing the reassurance to the team that despite conceding once, we should keep playing. Instead we signalled our lack of faith in our formation, play and the players who’d won us that match, and in doing so we gave Leicester everything they needed.

I do agree with you on the management calls, etc. All fair.

Igor’s unforgivable mistake isn’t the poor touch though - it’s the conscious decision to try to dribble past two opponents on the edge of our own box, in the 93rd minute.

 

[aolstudios]

Yep. Individual error. Igor. Shame.

That doesn't explain 3 whole games

 

[aolstudios]

Veltman, Kadioglu, hinshelwood, Lamptey. Possibly in that order as well.
Before you say it, Kadioglu prefers right back.

Despite being right footed, he says he prefers left back.
I'd still have been very happy to see him play the last 3 games there, mind

 

[aolstudios]

aware i’m risking substantial ire here, as criticising dunk is sacrilegious, but if we’re talking about headless chicken reactions and the rest of the team not being able to deal with game management when veltman is out, where is the man who is actually our captain in all of this? why is it veltman’s job to marshall the defence and make sure everyone keeps cool heads? shouldn’t that be the captain’s?

Maybe it should.
But Veltman does it better

 

[London Irish]

Do we score the first goal today if Tariq is benched for him

 

[nsclurker]

Three horrific games at the back. Three games without JV. Not a coincidence IMO. We need his leadership and housery. Let’s hope he’s back for Palace. Without him we can’t defend.

100 f***ing per cent

 

[pigmanovich]

Not to derail the thread but Jack has the footballing brain of a veteran player and I’ve missed him as much as Joel if not more.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not to derail the thread but Jack has the footballing brain of a veteran player and I’ve missed him as much as Joel if not more.

He does. But Saka turned him inside out. Kadioglu is rapid and skilful but looked like a schoolboy at Chelsea. Sometimes you need a square peg in a square hole.

 

[Zeberdi]

He does. But Saka turned him inside out. Kadioglu is rapid and skilful but looked like a schoolboy at Chelsea. Sometimes you need a square peg in a square hole.

Like I said imo, we have one and a half decent RBs, the rest are ok 3rd, 4th and 5th choices (not saying in what order).

My heart always sinks when I see a starting line up without JV.