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[Politics] The Labour Government



M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,747
Fiveways
Titanic said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Rachel Reeves: Chancellor changes debt rules to release billions

Reeves has said the government will change these rules to free up billions for spending on big projects.
www.bbc.co.uk

Or maybe that should say: Chancellor changes the rules so she can spend shitloads of money we don't have.
Click to expand...
Another way of looking at this is to turn back to 1945. As with the 2024 iteration, the government were confronted with massive debt left by the previous administration. We can forgive it though because government debt was at 250% of GDP. And yet the best government this country has ever had went on a spending spree, buying up utilities, providing the safety net via the welfare state, and nationalising healthcare to produce the cherished NHS.
This led to a high growth regime and rising real wages for workers which led to the fall of national debt such that it fell below 100% of GDP by the 1960s. If you've been paying attention, government debt has recently surpassed that figure -- and that's pretty much thanks to the Tories inability to run the economy, and all their nonsense about austerity, Brexit, hostility to planning, etc.

And still they pipe on about how they are the party to trust with the economy. If there weren't so many that believed that steaming pile of :poop: it'd be laughable.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,597
The Fatherland




fly high

fly high

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
1,705
in a house
beorhthelm said:
that's a good point. i believe GDP per capita in Caribbean is higher than most African nations, so arguable they are better off. the notion of reparation is so fraught with problems, who'd be eligable, who'd pay, i'm convinced it's only raised by people who want to stir up contention.
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Few years ago when it was first raised letters in the Daily Gleaner (Jamaican paper) there were some who called for reparations saying they were entitled as Jews had been paid it by Germany!! Others made exactly your point, they were lucky not to be still in Africa.
 


Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,307
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Is it PotG? said:
Wow, the credit card will take a further battering under Labour, who'd have thunk it?
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Yep. I think we could probably balance the books by:

a) rejoining the EU and
b) raising taxes

What say ye?
 








N

nevergoagain

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2005
1,522
nowhere near Burgess Hill
Our fiscal rules are non-negotiable and will apply to every decision that a labour government takes.

However we will change these rules whenever we want so that we can still apply them to every decision a labour government takes.
 






Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,770
Valley of Hangleton
Guinness Boy said:
Yep. I think we could probably balance the books by:

a) rejoining the EU and
b) raising taxes

What say ye?
Click to expand...
The Government needs among many things to go after the rich and one other example would be people like Contractors working outside IR35, i think the previous admin bottled it, What say ye? The rich, the non doms, big corporations and those sneaky fuckers who work outside IR35 for the same company time and time again ?
 


chip

chip

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
1,293
Glorious Goodwood
Machiavelli said:
Another way of looking at this is to turn back to 1945. As with the 2024 iteration, the government were confronted with massive debt left by the previous administration. We can forgive it though because government debt was at 250% of GDP. And yet the best government this country has ever had went on a spending spree, buying up utilities, providing the safety net via the welfare state, and nationalising healthcare to produce the cherished NHS.
This led to a high growth regime and rising real wages for workers which led to the fall of national debt such that it fell below 100% of GDP by the 1960s. If you've been paying attention, government debt has recently surpassed that figure -- and that's pretty much thanks to the Tories inability to run the economy, and all their nonsense about austerity, Brexit, hostility to planning, etc.

And still they pipe on about how they are the party to trust with the economy. If there weren't so many that believed that steaming pile of :poop: it'd be laughable.
Click to expand...
That's a great summary. Where to make the investments now in a very different world without undoing the good things is the difficult part? I hope it's not another few miles of HS2, we may know more next week. It also reads close to the 2019 manifesto and some definitely didn't like that. I don't think our world has the same idea of collective purpose as existed then.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,597
The Fatherland
Chicken Run said:
The Government needs among many things to go after the rich and one other example would be people like Contractors working outside IR35, i think the previous admin bottled it, What say ye? The rich, the non doms, big corporations and those sneaky fuckers who work outside IR35 for the same company time and time again ?
Click to expand...
The IR35 laws are unworkable in my opinion. Germany has a far simpler rule whereby freelancers/contractors etc cannot have all of their income from one client in a financial year. There isn’t a definite split but a test case put this at having at least two clients with the lesser client contributing at least 20% of income.

IR35 arguments always seem to center around wording in the contract. Here they just look at where the income has come, the only area of discussion is when companies are not at arms length from each other.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,993
Herr Tubthumper said:
But it was okay for your beloved Tory party to TRIPLE the national debt whilst in power?

The Tories have always been the party of borrow and not pay back.

www.taxresearch.org.uk

The Tories have always borrowed more than Labour, and always repaid less: they are the party of big deficit spending

It is often suggested that Labour is profligate and the Tories are the naturally ‘safe pair of hands’ when it comes to running the economy. The Tories, it is presumed, do not borrow as much as Labour. This is a hypothesis I have tested before. I thought it time to...
www.taxresearch.org.uk
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that happens when you dont really cut spending. odd point to make in response to debt increasing at faster rate.
 


Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,770
Valley of Hangleton
Herr Tubthumper said:
The IR35 laws are unworkable in my opinion. Germany has a far simpler rule whereby freelancers/contractors etc cannot have all of their income from one client in a financial year. There isn’t a definite split but a test case put this at having at least two clients with the lesser client contributing at least 20% of income.
Click to expand...
Or make them work inside IR35, simples
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,597
The Fatherland




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,597
The Fatherland
beorhthelm said:
that happens when you dont really cut spending. odd point to make in response to debt increasing at faster rate.
Click to expand...
I’m not I understand. The Tories did cut spending.
 


A

amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,800
Kinky Gerbil said:
A family member owns his own recruitment company in Brighton and reports the same thing, his company has taken the same approach as yourself in trying to get as many overseas people on the books as possible - the hassle locals bring isn't worth it half the time.

I've seen first hand how someone who was "desperate " for a job get angry as they were expected to go in the office 2 days a week for a potential job.
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Maybe bring back days when Argus had 5 pages of jobs
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
20,483
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Guinness Boy said:
Yep. I think we could probably balance the books by:

a) rejoining the EU and
b) raising taxes

What say ye?
Click to expand...
Count Me In High School Musical GIF by High School Musical: The Musical: The Series | Disney+
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,136
Withdean area
Herr Tubthumper said:
Yes. But to do this you need to have a workable IR35 law.
Click to expand...

I thought it worked pretty well.

First hand knowledge of workers who had just one ‘client’, to all intents an employee.

Now they’re all either on the books (giving them rights, holiday pay), or they pay IR35 liabilities.

People have to be careful when listening to media people bleating about it, because they have a very vested interest in seeing a return to the tax cheating wild west pre IR35.
 


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