[Cricket] Cricket- England tour of Pakistan- October 2024

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hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,759
Chandlers Ford
Eeyore said:
He did well in his only Test last time out in Pakistan, on a raging bunsen in Karachi. But there does seem to be an obstinacy about England's selections sometimes. I'm not convinced that another strong showing here will be the sign of great things to come. He averages 46 with the ball in county cricket. I should imagine Liam Dawson would have caused much havoc on this tour.

It seems to be all about next winter. During which I can see nothing but another pummeling with what we have.
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I've said much the same.

Nobody will convince me that Liam Dawson is not a better cricketer (in all facets of the game) right now than ALL of the other spinning options. And actually, in all formats.

He's a fine bowler with better stats than his competition, and is the only one who is a genuine all-rounder. For whatever reason he's not the sexy choice - which is fine, if you are happy to accept that every other Test series is simply about preparation for a series in two years' time. (I'm not).
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

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Jul 23, 2003
37,341
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Eeyore said:
He did well in his only Test last time out in Pakistan, on a raging bunsen in Karachi. But there does seem to be an obstinacy about England's selections sometimes. I'm not convinced that another strong showing here will be the sign of great things to come. He averages 46 with the ball in county cricket. I should imagine Liam Dawson would have caused much havoc on this tour.

It seems to be all about next winter. During which I can see nothing but another pummeling with what we have.
Click to expand...
hans kraay fan club said:
I've said much the same.

Nobody will convince me that Liam Dawson is not a better cricketer (in all facets of the game) right now than ALL of the other spinning options. And actually, in all formats.

He's a fine bowler with better stats than his competition, and is the only one who is a genuine all-rounder. For whatever reason he's not the sexy choice - which is fine, if you are happy to accept that every other Test series is simply about preparation for a series in two years' time. (I'm not).
Click to expand...
Looking at their stats side by side on Cricinfo the only thing that really stands out in both bowling and batting is Strike Rate. Despite Dawson getting an unbeaten 66 on the sub-continent his Test match batting strike rate is 42.63, whereas Ahmed is 59.58 in Test batting (with a much lower batting average). Bowling wise Dawson's SR is 75.1 and Ahmed's 51.7.

I'm not saying that's the reason, nor, if it is the reason, that it's a justification. It also ignores all of Dawson's cricket since his last Test. So why would I use that number? Because it was exactly the justification they used for picking Smith instead of Foakes, a decision that went ok at home but came back to bite us with the dropped catches last time out.
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,759
Chandlers Ford
Guinness Boy said:
Looking at their stats side by side on Cricinfo the only thing that really stands out in both bowling and batting is Strike Rate. Despite Dawson getting an unbeaten 66 on the sub-continent his Test match batting strike rate is 42.63, whereas Ahmed is 59.58 in Test batting (with a much lower batting average). Bowling wise Dawson's SR is 75.1 and Ahmed's 51.7.

I'm not saying that's the reason, nor, if it is the reason, that it's a justification. It also ignores all of Dawson's cricket since his last Test. So why would I use that number? Because it was exactly the justification they used for picking Smith instead of Foakes, a decision that went ok at home but came back to bite us with the dropped catches last time out.
Click to expand...
Their Test stats are way too small a sample size to make any meaningful comparison, though. They've only played 3 and 4 Tests each, and all of Rehan's four were on turning pitches on the subcontinent, whereas two of Dawson's three were not.

I'd focus more on the much larger body of work in First Class domestic cricket, on less spin friendly surfaces, where Dawson has a better batting average (35 to 29) and a far better bowling average (31 to 46).

Rehan does have a better (Test) strike rate - but that goes hand in hand with a significantly worse economy rate. Looking dangerous in India or Pakistan is great, but used as evidence to strengthen a case to ultimately be the best option for an Ashes series down the line, its very weak. He doesn't seem to me, to have the required control to hold up an end - and if he's ever in the side s the only front line spinner, he has to be able to perform that role.
 


Sid and the Sharknados

Sid and the Sharknados

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Sep 4, 2022
5,699
Darlington
Eeyore said:
He did well in his only Test last time out in Pakistan, on a raging bunsen in Karachi. But there does seem to be an obstinacy about England's selections sometimes. I'm not convinced that another strong showing here will be the sign of great things to come. He averages 46 with the ball in county cricket. I should imagine Liam Dawson would have caused much havoc on this tour.

It seems to be all about next winter. During which I can see nothing but another pummeling with what we have.
Click to expand...
hans kraay fan club said:
I've said much the same.

Nobody will convince me that Liam Dawson is not a better cricketer (in all facets of the game) right now than ALL of the other spinning options. And actually, in all formats.

He's a fine bowler with better stats than his competition, and is the only one who is a genuine all-rounder. For whatever reason he's not the sexy choice - which is fine, if you are happy to accept that every other Test series is simply about preparation for a series in two years' time. (I'm not).
Click to expand...
Dawson / Ahmed feels like a false comparison to me, they'll be picking a leg spinner as a wild card type option who might buy a wicket out of nowhere or run through the tail if they can't pick the googly. You'd pick Dawson instead of Leach, who had a better economy and strike rate than Dawson last season, as well as bowling more maidens in fewer overs.

I don't see Ahmed getting a match in Australia anyway, unless he drastically improves in the next year. I can't imagine a situation other than a match on an total bunsen where a spinner with more control can get through most of the overs where he gets in the team.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

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Apr 5, 2014
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Guinness Boy said:
Looking at their stats side by side on Cricinfo the only thing that really stands out in both bowling and batting is Strike Rate. Despite Dawson getting an unbeaten 66 on the sub-continent his Test match batting strike rate is 42.63, whereas Ahmed is 59.58 in Test batting (with a much lower batting average). Bowling wise Dawson's SR is 75.1 and Ahmed's 51.7.

I'm not saying that's the reason, nor, if it is the reason, that it's a justification. It also ignores all of Dawson's cricket since his last Test. So why would I use that number? Because it was exactly the justification they used for picking Smith instead of Foakes, a decision that went ok at home but came back to bite us with the dropped catches last time out.
Click to expand...
The wicket keeping things really bugs me. Always play your best keeper. It's only the Taylor/Knott scenario where batting is a tie breaker. Two almost faultless keepers.

Better a keeper who takes the half chance off Williamson when hasn't scored than one who drops it but averages 36 and not 26.
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

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Apr 5, 2014
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So to the final Test of the series. After playing on the the equal flattest surface on the planet, so much so it took till about the seventh day to do anything, we now move on to the... other one.

Apparently the heaters have been on the pitch and even rumours of raking. One can't help but think that the key lays with the toss and England are due a win there. As for spinners, England won the last Test they played there by 74 runs and in the second innings Robinson and Anderson took eight wickets between them. This after abut 2000 runs had been scored in the first half of the match, including four of England's top five making tons.

I'd say we could have an absorbing match here.

Forecast: England to win and take the series

www.espncricinfo.com

England stay on the front foot as Pakistan crank up the spin settings again

PAK vs ENG 2024/25 Pakistan vs England Match Preview: Return to scene of famous win in 2022 will encourage visitors to stick to aggressive template
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

www.espncricinfo.com

PAK vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 1st Test at Rawalpindi, December 01 - 05, 2022

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, PAK vs ENG, England in Pakistan 2022/23 at Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium dated December 01 - 05, 2022.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

If folk are worried about the absence of cricket for a while, don't worry. England are in New Zealand for three Tests before Christmas. Bliss.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,151
Goldstone
Have we lost the toss yet?
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,759
Chandlers Ford
Eeyore said:
England won the last Test they played there by 74 runs and in the second innings Robinson and Anderson took eight wickets between them. This after abut 2000 runs had been scored in the first half of the match, including four of England's top five making tons.
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and 3 of Pakistan‘s top 4.
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

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Apr 5, 2014
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Sid and the Sharknados

Sid and the Sharknados

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Darlington
Without discounting the entirely obvious prospect of England collapsing and losing this game, I think I'm starting to see the flaw with a plan that's entirely dependent on winning the toss and batting first.
 




Papa Lazarou

Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
19,361
Worthing
With England 93/3 and the ball turning and keeping low, it seems that Pakistan have got something approaching the pitch they wanted.
 


















Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,151
Goldstone
Sid and the Sharknados said:
Without discounting the entirely obvious prospect of England collapsing and losing this game, I think I'm starting to see the flaw with a plan that's entirely dependent on winning the toss and batting first.
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We didn't in the first test, but obviously when you're batting on a pitch that's 9 days old you're going to struggle.
 




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